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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:19 pm 
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Fliger747 wrote:
I believe you are referring to the "truck lights" on the mast? My recollection is that the Red and Green (Port and Starboard) lights are mounted on the exterior of the navigation bridge wings. Somewhere I have photos onboard Missouri that show these, but being in the middle of Siberia at the moment... On my eye pad I do have a photo detailing the forward mast arrangements of North Carolina, labeling all sorts of small items. In this photo the truck lights as labeled are on a small horizontal extension aft the mast, near the top and are (WAG) a little larger than a mans head as an assembly. Below this and similar in appearance (-10') is the "man Overboard and Breakdown light".

Not to nit pick too much, but in your photo, the wind baffles on the air defense position at the top of the tower make this Washington rather than North Carolina. :smallsmile:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:47 pm 
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I don't claim any expertise for the North Carolina's at all. Just a WAG as the photo, purloined from who knows where happened to be on my eye pad while I am traveling in Siberia. Not labeled.

Cheers: T


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:55 pm 
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Does anyone know where I can find drawings or clear photos of the Nancy infrared signaling light arrays carried outboard of missouri’s Air defence platform?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:39 pm 
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Chuck. Page 81 of The Floating Drydock Plan Handbook shows the Infra Red signal assembly in reasonable detail, enough for a model. Once you know the location on the ship, you can see them in photos, but I have not found any close up photos.
I read somewhere that the term "Nancy Hanks" was used as code when they were about to send signals via the Infra Red system.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:44 am 
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There is a brief discussion of the Nancy Hanks usage in the HMCS Haida link I posted yesterday. At home I have a "key" for sending morse code via truck lights and such. Looks just like a fairly heavy duty telegraphic key, these were fairly low wattage lamps.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:01 am 
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BB63Missouri wrote:
Chuck. Page 81 of The Floating Drydock Plan Handbook shows the Infra Red signal assembly in reasonable detail, enough for a model. Once you know the location on the ship, you can see them in photos, but I have not found any close up photos.
I read somewhere that the term "Nancy Hanks" was used as code when they were about to send signals via the Infra Red system.



Hmmm, in my e-book version, page 81 shows Fr 98 - 112 MAIN DECK. I did not find anything on the IR Light assembly.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:22 am 
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Chuck,

Not knowing WHAT ERA your MO is going to be, I can't say what anything but the older (post WWII/Korea) NANCY Beacon's dimensions/details may be. While drawing up plans for my 1:44 scale FLETCHER class DD model, I did some research into the various navigational/communications devices commonly used by the USN in the 1950's/'60s. The NANCY Infared Beacon (port/stbd side) were common on FLETCHER/GEARING Class DDs and I would also think the IOWA class BB's. But without complete knowledge of these items on this class, I'm taking a guess:

1) Here is a photo of NEW JERSEY in the '50s with NANCY beacons (I think) highlighted:
Attachment:
IOWA class Forearm.JPG
IOWA class Forearm.JPG [ 127.96 KiB | Viewed 678 times ]


Here is a clip of my CAD file showing the lamp in detail:
Attachment:
NANCY Beacon Close-up.JPG
NANCY Beacon Close-up.JPG [ 18.21 KiB | Viewed 678 times ]


Here is a illustrative diagram of the overall NANCY system as used by the USN:
Attachment:
an sat-2a system diagram.JPG
an sat-2a system diagram.JPG [ 53.5 KiB | Viewed 678 times ]


And a photo of the lamp itself:
Attachment:
USN Yardarm Infared Blinker Lamp_1 - Resized.jpg
USN Yardarm Infared Blinker Lamp_1 - Resized.jpg [ 226.09 KiB | Viewed 678 times ]


The dimensions for the lamp (only - without the metal framework) are approx. 4 1/2" wide X 10 1/2" high - at least that's a ballpark figure subject to someone else's interpretation.

Hope this helps,

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Builder's yard:
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late '40 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:24 am 
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Thanks.

I am building Missouri as she was around August 1945, before the removal of deck vents for the surrender ceremony and subsequent removal of some 20mm mounts on the way back to the states.

The Nancy beacon she carried at that time appear to be X-2A model, which were mounted on a frame bolted to the bulwarks around her air defence platform. From blurry photos blown up many times the x-2A beacon seems to be a metal cylinder or half cylinder about 3 feet tall and 1 foot in diameter. There seems to be at least 6 circular IR lamps embedded in two diagonal columns in the wall of the cylinder, arranged to give about 180 degree coverage. There are some pipes or cable conduits sticking out near the bottom.

But for some reason clear drawings or photos of this beacon is very hard to come by. The only reason I think it is X-2A is I found a scan of an Dec 1945 office of Chief of Naval Operations Combat Information Center pamphlet that contained a small photo of it labeled X-2A and a verbal passage confirming that is the model number of the Omni-direction IR signaling beacon mounted on larger ships. The beacon appears to match the beacon on the Missouri to the extent possible to determine from comparing small blurry photos of the beacon to a small detail on the image of the ship blown up many times.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:39 am 
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chuck wrote:
BB63Missouri wrote:
Chuck. Page 81 of The Floating Drydock Plan Handbook shows the Infra Red signal assembly in reasonable detail, enough for a model. Once you know the location on the ship, you can see them in photos, but I have not found any close up photos.
I read somewhere that the term "Nancy Hanks" was used as code when they were about to send signals via the Infra Red system.



Hmmm, in my e-book version, page 81 shows Fr 98 - 112 MAIN DECK. I did not find anything on the IR Light assembly.



Same here. Would it be possible to provide more detail so we can locate the picture?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:27 am 
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Chuck and Larry. Page 81 in the Plans Handbook shows the following:

- Whistle Platform
- Forward Surface Lookout Station
- "TDY" Antenna
- Steering Station - Top of Steering Station
- Air Defence Station - The Infra Red Device is attached to the Port & Starboard sides of the Air Defence Station.

Page 85 shows the starboard and aft side of the Tower and Forward Stack. Although the Infra Red Devices are clearly shown they are not labelled and are drawn in 1/96 scale so only show limited detail, but enough to build on a model.

I have seen photos of USS Missouri taken during the Japanese surrender while she was in Tokyo Bay and you can see the IRD on the sides of the Air Defence Station.

I think the X-2A Chuck describes looks exactly what is drawn in the plans Handbook. They are about 3/8" high so in 1/96 scale this would make them 3 feet in height. They are a half cylinder in plan view.

Hope this helps, David


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:40 pm 
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I believe I found a clearer picture of X2A. The shot is taken from the Quincy. The ship on the right is the Boston. The X2A is on the extreme left of the photo, near the man looking out over the bulwark. It looks like the body of the beacon is actually a complete cylinder, not a half cylinder:

Image

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 2:36 am 
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Thanks for posting that chuck, that is the best photo by far that I have seen and clearly shows the multiple lights. The housing could still be a half cylinder shape but perhaps it was possible to move it through 180 degrees?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:55 am 
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My guess is that this is a stationary unit - the various IR lamps are positioned so that the unit would be able to be seen from various angles by a receiving ship thru a 180° arc parallel to the hull of the ship. From the photo it appears that there are 3 lamps at 3 different heights with a 2nd set (bottom to top) arranged in the same order on the back half of the unit (only the bottom lamp is partially visible).

I will check this out in my BB63 Plan Book tonight. Thanks, Chuck for posting the photo - much clearer what this exactly is.

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BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late '40 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:13 pm 
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Going over the various class of battleships (photos), I've been able to find several versions of these IR lamp units on both BB-56 & BB-56. I did not find any located on BBs-57-60, nor BB-61 or BB-64. Here are a few photos incl. NORTH CAROLINAs, which is still in place:
Attachment:
BB-55 Conning Tower_1.JPG
BB-55 Conning Tower_1.JPG [ 75.76 KiB | Viewed 423 times ]

Attachment:
BB-55 Museum Conning Tower_1.JPG
BB-55 Museum Conning Tower_1.JPG [ 29.05 KiB | Viewed 423 times ]

Attachment:
BB-56 Conning Tower_1.JPG
BB-56 Conning Tower_1.JPG [ 108.36 KiB | Viewed 423 times ]


Here are a couple more shots of BB63 at various dates:
1945 -
Attachment:
BB-63 Conning Twr 1945_1.JPG
BB-63 Conning Twr 1945_1.JPG [ 66.88 KiB | Viewed 423 times ]

1951 During Korean War -
Attachment:
BB-63 Conning Twr 1951_1.JPG
BB-63 Conning Twr 1951_1.JPG [ 92.94 KiB | Viewed 423 times ]


You can note the difference in mounting hardware between BB-55 & BB-56 and different again for BB-63. I think BB-62 had a version but I have yet to verify that with a photo.

Hope this helps,

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Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late '40 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:09 pm 
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For what it's worth, same light arrangement is seen on CB-1 in 1944 (see below). The fighting lights are right above the beacons. I can't confirm if CB-2 received them or not (no good closeups I could find).

Image


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:31 pm 
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Thanks for the photo, a few items I can add to my CB1!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:26 pm 
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The illustrations on Pgs. 81/85 in TFD Plan Book are sufficient to build the Infrared Lamp Unit - however, as the above photos indicate, these were probably still prototypes as they all appear to be somewhat different, especially in the mounting and location. NORTH CAROLINA's framework looks to be the more radical in design being placed further away from the conning tower - perhaps in order to increase the distance that the unit would be able to function, or possibly in order to keep any elec. radiation away from personnel standing on the Air Defense Platform when those units were in operation.

It appears that the model of this equipment from the '50s as I earlier posted was the follow-on to the war-time prototype being discussed and was standardized as a pole mounted unit on the yardarms of ships.

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late '40 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:09 pm 
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Maybe for visibility, after all in a tactical formation ships would ofter be in column.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:28 pm 
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In my version of the plan handbook, the paper version, I think the plan view may be incorrectly drawn. It shoes the Infra Red Device with the half circle facing the ship and the flat portion facing out. The disc version of the plan book may be different, I don't know as I have not seen this version. Looking at the photos it seems to me the semi-circular portion should be facing out. The light pattern I think would be 5 lights, one at the top, 2 in the middle and 3 at the bottom. Mounted on a semi-circular face this pattern would be visible through 180 degrees I think.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:40 pm 
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I think BB62vet is correct that the lights would have been standardised after the war and placed on the yardarms as per the photos and illustrations he posted.
The originals, being early developments of the technology, may have only had a limited range. The original radar systems only had a limited range and it was only later in the war after further development that the range was increased. More resources would have been put into radar development than Infra Red development, and as the technology and knowledge improved so too the design would have changed as seen in BB62vet's post. Just a thought.


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