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PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:22 am 
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The photo below shows cylinders of two different sizes stored aboard ship in the racks mentioned by Jim. Sets of 3D-printed cylinders of both sizes are available in 1/200 scale and larger.

Below the photo are tables of common cylinder sizes. The first table shows generic, high-pressure cylinders. The other tables are specific to the type of gas stored in them (acetylene, propylene and propane, etc.). Model Monkey 3D-printed cylinders are based on dimensions taken from these tables.


Attachments:
acetylene and oxygen cylinders BB-63 1945 016341c.crop.comment.jpg
acetylene and oxygen cylinders BB-63 1945 016341c.crop.comment.jpg [ 125.43 KiB | Viewed 4342 times ]
high-pressure-cylinders.jpg
high-pressure-cylinders.jpg [ 88.15 KiB | Viewed 4342 times ]
acetylene-cylinders-size-chart.jpg
acetylene-cylinders-size-chart.jpg [ 85.6 KiB | Viewed 4342 times ]
fg2-and-propylene-cylinder-size-chart.jpg
fg2-and-propylene-cylinder-size-chart.jpg [ 72.6 KiB | Viewed 4342 times ]
propane-cylinders-size-chart.jpg
propane-cylinders-size-chart.jpg [ 39.39 KiB | Viewed 4342 times ]

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Catalog of over 2000 products for scale modelers, most in 3D-printed gray resin - https://www.model-monkey.com/
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 Post subject: Iowa Class Hull Shape
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:46 am 
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Hopefully, this will be my last ever hull model, having refined this iteratively over several years.

This is based on the molded lines. I am testing the practicability of doing a plated version. First the bottom. Every kit I have seen has FUed this. The docking keel is likely not to be there or will be way too short. The twin keels are integral part of the hull and are not "skegs" attached to the hull structure. THe plan NEVER refer to them as skegs. Note the curve of the half siding at the bottom and how it compares with kits.

Also note the half siding at the stern that also tends to disappear in kits.

The plating does not follow the knuckle lines so the knuckles are less prominent on the ships.

Attachment:
Screen Shot 2019-07-22 at 12.25.27 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-07-22 at 12.25.27 PM.png [ 372.1 KiB | Viewed 4316 times ]


At the side, the profiles in the area at the right are lines above the heel curves. Aft of that there is a transition where the line starts to become a V, creating knuckles at the vertex of the V and at the bottom of the V where the hull is curve.

At you move aft. the lines of the V transition to curves. Again, the hull plating does not follow these knuckles.

Attachment:
Screen Shot 2019-07-22 at 12.27.27 PM.png
Screen Shot 2019-07-22 at 12.27.27 PM.png [ 256.89 KiB | Viewed 4316 times ]


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:17 pm 
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Some pictures of the New Jersey from off the tour. Actually this first picture is on the tour. This is one of the three projectile hoists in the lower flat of turret two. Note the cylinder that is used to jack the projectiles up through the hoist and the pipe with fluid to drive the cylinder.

Attachment:
P1040744.jpg
P1040744.jpg [ 221.73 KiB | Viewed 4265 times ]


Moving to the upper projectile flat, this is the view into the hoist. Note the pawl at the left attached to the hoist tube. Further down to the right is a pawl attached to the moveable pawl carrier. The piston drives the pawl carrier upwards. That pushes the projectile past the next fixed pawl, which retracts as the projectile goes by then springs back once the projectile goes past so the projectile cannot go back down. The operator lowers the cylinder and the pawl carrier. It's pawls retract as they go downward past projectiles then spring outward once below them.

The operator repeats that cycle five times to get a projectile from the lower flat into the cradle in the gun chamber.

There can be five projectiles in the hoist and and one in the cradle. The system disengages when there is a projectile in the cradle. The official projectile storage count of 1,264 includes five projectiles in each hoist.

Attachment:
P1040753.jpg
P1040753.jpg [ 246.19 KiB | Viewed 4265 times ]


When the turrets were redesigned after the original design would not fit on the ship, books say it produced a cramped layout. You would not believe how cramped. I wish I had taken more picture crawling through but this the level just below where the gun crew stands. You have to crawl on your knees. The ladder in the background leads to the center gun chamber.

Attachment:
P1040761.jpg
P1040761.jpg [ 266.33 KiB | Viewed 4265 times ]


This shows where the picture was taken. The plan shows a ladder immediately in front but it was not there.

Attachment:
Plan.png
Plan.png [ 171.75 KiB | Viewed 4255 times ]



This is the powder handling level taken from the lower storage level. The lower storage level forms a balcony so the two-story room feels like the most spacious on the ship (there are also crew quarters on the 3d deck forward where the rising bow also creates very high overheads).

Attachment:
P1040773.jpg
P1040773.jpg [ 216.58 KiB | Viewed 4265 times ]


This is where the class A belt armor meets the lower class B tier. The plate that is scalloped at the bottom is the backing bulkhead that supports the class A armor. That is attached to the bulkhead with bolts (the two round covers are examples). There is about an inch between the backing bulkhead and the class A armor. The gap is filled with concrete.

The backing bulkhead overlaps the class B armor and is welded to it along the scalloped edge. This gives a larger welding surface.

Below this weld joint, the class B belt armor forms Torpedo Bulkhead 3. Above the joint. the backing bulkhead forms the rest of the Torpedo Bulkhead.

Attachment:
P1040780.jpg
P1040780.jpg [ 150.79 KiB | Viewed 4265 times ]


Last edited by bigjimslade on Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:32 pm 
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Great photos and explanation! As to cramped, people were smaller then, depression era kids!

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:28 am 
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Jim,

Thanks for the very interesting entries/photos regarding the ammunition hoists, etc. And to think this was all figured out on slide rules and measuring tapes! No calculators, computers, or smart phone apps!!

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Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late '40 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:22 am 
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The sad state of the peeling paint is concerning.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:23 pm 
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Chuck wrote:
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The sad state of the peeling paint is concerning.


You don't know the half of it. TEXAS is a disaster waiting to sink - oh, right, she just about has sunk. OLYMPIA is about there also. I don't know of a museum ship that isn't in some form of disrepair due to lack of maintenance. These "museum" groups would rather spend $$$ on advertising for an overnight on board than a bucket of primer, some wire brushes, and a few gallons of paint. LAFFEY, DID sink and it took that event to open a few eyes - but for how long?

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late '40 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:23 pm 
The reason why most museum ships are so poorly maintained is the lack of manpower. For example, when the Texas was in active service, it had crew of over 1200 to do the maintenance, i.e., scrapping, painting, polishing, washing, etc. A museum ship usually have a crew of a few dozen part time volunteers to do the same work.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:29 pm 
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chuck wrote:
The sad state of the peeling paint is concerning.


The photo showing the point peeling is in a relatively inaccessible area. To get there, I had to pull myself upwards through openings using just my arms. It would be tough just to get a can of paint in there.

In contrast, the paint job below that where you can enter without doing pull-ups is quite beautiful and well-maintained.

I took this picture in the upper projectile flat. This level is not on the tour. You have to climb a ladder to reach it but it is an easy climb. The floor is covered with grease from the projectile sliding days but the paint is still in good shape.

Attachment:
P1040765.jpg
P1040765.jpg [ 183.19 KiB | Viewed 4091 times ]



I think they are spending $5M redoing the deck on the NJ. When the navy redid the deck in the 80's the saved money by laminating about 1/8" of teak over 2-7/8" of douglas fir. The teak layer survived but the douglas fir rotted underneath, destroying the deck.


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 Post subject: More Turret Stuff
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:52 pm 
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To the right is the circular gear that rings the turret support. The turret motors drive gears against this to rotate the turret. To the left is one of the turret clips.These keep the turret from lifting upwards.

Although not visible, the bolts connect the lower roller track to the lip shown. This is the point where the turret rests on the ship (it does not rest on the barbette, contrary to appearances otherwise).

Attachment:
P1040757.jpg
P1040757.jpg [ 135.29 KiB | Viewed 4090 times ]


This is the turret buffer. It is attached to the rotating part of the turret. The projection cuts off the turret motor when it is pushed in. There is one on either side of the buffer.
Attachment:
P1040768.jpg
P1040768.jpg [ 213.11 KiB | Viewed 4090 times ]


This is one of the two turret stops that the buffer can run into. It does not look like the turret was rammed into the stops very frequently.
Attachment:
P1040767 .jpg
P1040767 .jpg [ 227.06 KiB | Viewed 4090 times ]


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:03 pm 
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Location: Evergreen, Colorado
I was aboard New Jersey last month. Having volunteered on Iowa for three years, I was impressed by the efforts of the New Jersey volunteers, Bravo Zulu guys! The sorry state of the USS Texas and USS Olympia has been attributed to poor executive management. Sad that the Board of Directors of these memorials cannot seem to find management that are interested in the ship and not the opulent parties they want to have.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:05 am 
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Sorry for the newby first message. I am building the 1/200 Missouri, what is the TFD plan book and where can i find it? The super drawings 3D is crazy expensive.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:37 am 
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IModel_215 -

If expense is a factor, then the 1/200 MISSOURI kit is out of your league. In order to build this kit with any sense of accuracy, you are going to spend some money. That is, of course, MY opinion and I've already completed a build using this kit as a starter base.

TFD - The Floating Drydock. They publish and sell the USS MISSOURI E-Plan Book which is only available electronically now. You will need to print it out full size in order to make proper use of it.

The 3D book is nice, but not necessary to build this kit.

Hope this helps,

_________________
HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late '40 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:30 am 
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IModel_215 wrote:
Sorry for the newby first message. I am building the 1/200 Missouri, what is the TFD plan book and where can i find it? The super drawings 3D is crazy expensive.

I have both the plan book and the 3D book for sale on the Trading Post thread.

Larry


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:54 am 
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IModel_215 wrote:
Sorry for the newby first message. I am building the 1/200 Missouri, what is the TFD plan book and where can i find it? The super drawings 3D is crazy expensive.


I would be leery of using 3D drawings a reference source. There are so many details in something the size of a battleship that it would take two lifetimes for someone to get them all into a 3D model. Whenever I see 3D photograph simulations of the Iowa class I find many errors and omissions. That is why I never bought the specific book you ask about. I was going through another book that relied on heavily on 3D photographic simulation over the weekend and found many thing were off. If you're just a causal reader trying to get a general overview, that's no problem. But, if you're a modeler trying to match the details of the ship, it's a big problem.

This use of 3D as substitute for photographs seems to me to be a fad. This is particularly so in cases where the subject is well documented in photographs.

An 80-page book selling for over $700 in "acceptable" condition? Wow.

The Floating Drydock plan book is clearly based upon original sources and is highly accurate.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:30 am 
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Greetings Imodel_215, and welcome to the forums!

I'm delighted to see another modeller tackle this beast. It is a monster and will consume tons of both time and money! Hank (BB62vet) is right when he says it will end up being very expensive. By the time you end up buying all the necessary PE and reference materials you can figure spending well over a grand. But, when you take a look at the few that actually completed this kit, it's well worth it. It's a beautiful ship that will give you great satisfaction, both in building it and displaying it (which I HOPE to be able to do SOMEDAY!)

Bigjimslade is also correct in that you really have to take the Kagero 3D book with a grain of salt. There is quite a bit of detail in it but not all of it is accurate. You need to check other sources as well. (Sideline: I don't understand why you say it's expensive unless it's out of print. I bought it from Amazon back in 2016 for $30.)

If you plan on doing any detailing on this ship other than an Out-of-box build, I would suggest you at least explore these resources:

1. Start at page 1 and read this thread all the way through - all 200 pages. I have a good screen grab program (Snagit, from Techsmith) and when I see a tip or picture that shows me some detail or bit of information, I save it in a separate folder. There is a ton of information here.

2. Read the build logs of the other modellers who have built this ship or are in the process. While there are probably more, the ones that come to mind right now are Hank (BB62vet), who converted the kit into a modern New Jersey, Kelly Quirk, and Wojtek, who populated his ship with sailors and depicted the Japanese surrender. And also, my own build log of my still-in-process build.

3. By all means get the BB63 e-book from The Floating Drydock. It isn't expensive - $20 or $25, but there is a ton of detail in it,especially if you plan on adding any extra detail. Tom sold the business to Randy Fagan and he is still in the process of getting things organized and straightened around, so he may be a bit slow in responding, but he's honest and reliable and willing to help.

4. If you can possibly afford it, buy a set of plans from TFD for this ship. According to Randy, the best ones are the ones by Tom Walkowiak, the TFW series. They show detail that doesn't appear even in the e-book drawings. The 1:192 scale plans are only $29 and are well worth the money. They depict the ship as she was in September of 1945. I also have the 1:96 scale plans which I find even better because I'm 76 years old and my eyesight isn't what it used to be. These are $55, but with the shipping and the extra to have them sent rolled instead of folded, they're closer to $70.

I'm sure there are other resources, but these are the ones I use primarily. Also, all of us here are available to answer questions and offer help and give advice. We're actually a pretty friendly bunch.

So, good luck, have fun and enjoy your new toy! Just be patient and stock up on your favorite wine! You'll need both!

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Currently working on (and will be for years to come!)
1:200 USS Missouri (Monster Mo)


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:03 pm 
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BB62vet wrote:
IModel_215 -

If expense is a factor, then the 1/200 MISSOURI kit is out of your league. In order to build this kit with any sense of accuracy, you are going to spend some money. That is, of course, MY opinion and I've already completed a build using this kit as a starter base.

TFD - The Floating Drydock. They publish and sell the USS MISSOURI E-Plan Book which is only available electronically now. You will need to print it out full size in order to make proper use of it.

The 3D book is nice, but not necessary to build this kit.

Hope this helps,


Money isn’t quite the issue. There is plenty of horsepower there. It’s more the principle of spending over 700 bucks on a book that, once i am complete with the model, i will probably never open again. Where as the model, i will get to enjoy looking at it for years and years (hopefully). The biggest hurdles will be inexperience, too much ambition, not enough time lol.

So far I have acquired the model (for the second time, the first kit met a very tragic ending......) the teak blue deck w/PE, PE screws and barrels, and an enormous amount of paint....which took absolutely forever to decide on. There seem to be many conflicting opinions of the correct paint shades as she sat in Tokyo Bay.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:05 pm 
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steinerman wrote:
Greetings Imodel_215, and welcome to the forums!

I'm delighted to see another modeller tackle this beast. It is a monster and will consume tons of both time and money! Hank (BB62vet) is right when he says it will end up being very expensive. By the time you end up buying all the necessary PE and reference materials you can figure spending well over a grand. But, when you take a look at the few that actually completed this kit, it's well worth it. It's a beautiful ship that will give you great satisfaction, both in building it and displaying it (which I HOPE to be able to do SOMEDAY!)

Bigjimslade is also correct in that you really have to take the Kagero 3D book with a grain of salt. There is quite a bit of detail in it but not all of it is accurate. You need to check other sources as well. (Sideline: I don't understand why you say it's expensive unless it's out of print. I bought it from Amazon back in 2016 for $30.)

If you plan on doing any detailing on this ship other than an Out-of-box build, I would suggest you at least explore these resources:

1. Start at page 1 and read this thread all the way through - all 200 pages. I have a good screen grab program (Snagit, from Techsmith) and when I see a tip or picture that shows me some detail or bit of information, I save it in a separate folder. There is a ton of information here.

2. Read the build logs of the other modellers who have built this ship or are in the process. While there are probably more, the ones that come to mind right now are Hank (BB62vet), who converted the kit into a modern New Jersey, Kelly Quirk, and Wojtek, who populated his ship with sailors and depicted the Japanese surrender. And also, my own build log of my still-in-process build.

3. By all means get the BB63 e-book from The Floating Drydock. It isn't expensive - $20 or $25, but there is a ton of detail in it,especially if you plan on adding any extra detail. Tom sold the business to Randy Fagan and he is still in the process of getting things organized and straightened around, so he may be a bit slow in responding, but he's honest and reliable and willing to help.

4. If you can possibly afford it, buy a set of plans from TFD for this ship. According to Randy, the best ones are the ones by Tom Walkowiak, the TFW series. They show detail that doesn't appear even in the e-book drawings. The 1:192 scale plans are only $29 and are well worth the money. They depict the ship as she was in September of 1945. I also have the 1:96 scale plans which I find even better because I'm 76 years old and my eyesight isn't what it used to be. These are $55, but with the shipping and the extra to have them sent rolled instead of folded, they're closer to $70.

I'm sure there are other resources, but these are the ones I use primarily. Also, all of us here are available to answer questions and offer help and give advice. We're actually a pretty friendly bunch.

So, good luck, have fun and enjoy your new toy! Just be patient and stock up on your favorite wine! You'll need both!


I will look into that book. Thank you for the advice.

Ive been following multiple build threads from a bunch of you guys on this particular thread. You guys are extremely talented, keep it up!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:35 pm 
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bigjimslade wrote:
IModel_215 wrote:
Sorry for the newby first message. I am building the 1/200 Missouri, what is the TFD plan book and where can i find it? The super drawings 3D is crazy expensive.


I would be leery of using 3D drawings a reference source. There are so many details in something the size of a battleship that it would take two lifetimes for someone to get them all into a 3D model. Whenever I see 3D photograph simulations of the Iowa class I find many errors and omissions. That is why I never bought the specific book you ask about. I was going through another book that relied on heavily on 3D photographic simulation over the weekend and found many thing were off. If you're just a causal reader trying to get a general overview, that's no problem. But, if you're a modeler trying to match the details of the ship, it's a big problem.

This use of 3D as substitute for photographs seems to me to be a fad. This is particularly so in cases where the subject is well documented in photographs.

An 80-page book selling for over $700 in "acceptable" condition? Wow.

The Floating Drydock plan book is clearly based upon original sources and is highly accurate.

I don't know where the $700 figure came from, but I'm selling mine for $20 and the 3D book for $15. I agree there are some errors in book, but in general it was quite useful when I built my Missouri.

Larry


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:27 am 
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lgmccauley wrote:
I don't know where the $700 figure came from, but I'm selling mine for $20 and the 3D book for $15.


That's the lowest priced copy on Amazon, ALIBRIS, ABEBOOKS and its for a copy in "acceptable" condition. From there, the price goes up.


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