The Ship Model Forum

BR 20, Ch 91, Article 9132, Sub para 3 refers: https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/-/media/ro ... 2/ch91.pdf



See also pages 335-6 of "Signal" by Capt Barrie Kent RN for a short history of battle ensigns.

You may be thinking of this one Guest? (No idea the artists name.)

And thanks for your reply Joseph!

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“We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
“A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942

Schmitz-Westerholt

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Hard a starboard.......Shoot!

A bit OTT perhaps:

True enough that painting is by JC Schmitz (as PaulC already pointed out) - however being one of the paintings from the German side - who wouldn't have been close enough to actually observe hull colour in detail (remember they described the forward half of HOOD's hull as looking like a dark cathedral spire as it went down)- I think a slight error of license with red AF can be forgiven.. the Germans used red AF from what I gather.. so Schmidz was probably just running with what he 'knew' about ships in the general sense (like when the great Marinemaler Claus Bergen painted Prinz Eugen ''Im Danemarkstrasse'' - copying some of the detail of the ship which he had probably observed personally after the event - but which was actually fitted after she returned to occupied France following OP Rhine) it is an evocative image at any rate. I also recall some more watercolours which were executed by an artist embarked aboard DKM Prinz Eugen, which a client in Germany showed me last year.. illuminating stuff.

Dick thank you kindly for your replies - suddenly now the flag detail of Mr. Hamilton's piece looks very plausible. I wouldn't doubt that he was able to speak with former crewmembers from POW when he researched his work. I do appreciate your replies because I am a maritime artist myself - and admittedly I am currently putting finishing touches on a painting of this same engagement (also from the British side). This was an issue that had bugged me - hence quietly asking the question about it in the first place. I think I will add the second Battle Ensign to POW, as a proud nod to Mr. Hamilton.

Lastly, I don't know how I forgot about that well known photo of WARSPITE during Overlord! What a beauty she was.

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IG: @somewhere_east_of_suez
www.JosephReindler.com

while I remember.. back in the 1980's & 90's this very old large model of HOOD was on display at the Auckland War Memorial Museum (New Zealand). No idea who actually built it nor what references were used - but I took the attached photo circa early 1990s and happened to still have it. I gather the model is no longer on display - but it is very very old, possibly c1930's~

Also note the model of DKM Tirpitz (not Bismarck!), behind, has red oxide AF as a point of difference.. I believe all this might be trying to tell us something.

Cheers

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IG: @somewhere_east_of_suez
www.JosephReindler.com

Other aspects of this painting betrays the fact that the artist was less than painstaking in ensuring accuracy. For example, even a very slight research into why ships float would show why it would hydrostatically be totally impossible for that much of the front half of a broken Hood to rear out of the water. Even a complete Hood could never rear that far out of the water. This is without even considering any structural implications of a ship rear up that far out of water.

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Assessing the impact of new area rug under modeling table.

The hood carried a set of cat heads behind her anchors. They are apparently used for hanging the anchor off the side of the ship so the anchor chains can be detached from the anchor and used instead to moor the ship to bouys.

Pontos PE Set show the cat head contains a set of large pulley wheels, probably used pulling the anchor to the cat head. My question is are those pulley wheels permanently installed? Or are they removed when the ship is underway, leaving only cat head brackets affixed to the deck, Wen the ship is underway?

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Assessing the impact of new area rug under modeling table.

Kevin D,

Your Post of 28 March: Correct!

Chuck,

The sheaves of the clump cat heads were integral parts of the fittings. These were used to heave the anchor to a vertical position under it when the weight was transferred to a chain sling known, I believe, as "the necklace." The wire rope "catting pendant/pennant" was then unshackled from the anchor until required to lower the anchor below its hawse pipe again.

Is this the Bergen painting you refer to Joseph?

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“We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
“A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942

Yes Sir that is the one. Claus Bergen's contribution to historical maritime art was quite a tremendous one. However note the circular hooded directors flanking the lower bridgework - which were actually still the original fitted open mounts at this point in time. I really do hate to be critical of this piece - because it is one of the better ones ever executed illustrating this event from the German side; I think the mood of the elements is accurate and very well captured.. but with respect to the ship I suspect that the artist based his detail on what he likely saw after this particular sortie. And meanwhile the fact that he lived through both World Wars, painting what he saw himself and what he understood about the subject, is something in itself. What he has illustrated for us now serves as a truly valuable historical record - especially with respect to his very colourful WW1 scenes.

Note as well the greater distance of separation between the two German ships, when compared with Admiral Holland's formation - which had HOOD and POW separated by only about 4 cables.. which is very little sea-room for heavy surface units..

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IG: @somewhere_east_of_suez
www.JosephReindler.com

apologies this is slightly o/t - however my mistake regarding my above comment about Battle Ensigns at the fore - it has since occurred to me that such images are particularly common especially for the KG5s.. and it seems very likely that POW might have carried one into the Denmark Strait action.



I sometimes don't see the wood for the trees (blame the Ardbeg and paint fumes) but I think this settles the matter. Off to paint a flag, and raise a glass to John Hamilton.

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IG: @somewhere_east_of_suez
www.JosephReindler.com

Here's a link to a page with the watercolour paintings by Schmitz. One is strikingly similar to the famous NH69724 photo showing Hood blowing up. The other is probably a much more accurate image of what it looked like as PoW passed in front of the sinking Hood. Note that no hull red is shown!

http://www.kbismarck.com/archives/signalart.html



That painting uses a bit of dramatic license I guess - it depicts Prinz Eugen with 2 15-inch shells from Hood landing just forward of her bow - as described by those aboard (the resulting collapsing spray setting her decks awash). This happened very early, likely before the Prinz opened fire. However - in the distance it looks like it's also depicting Hood blowing up. At that point, to be historcally accurate (as described in Prinz Eugen's war diary), any final shells arriving from Hood should have been possibly just the ones shown astern between Prinz Eugen and Bismarck...

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Hard a starboard.......Shoot!

Just reading somethingn re her enteriing her last action off Malaya, and says there - as have read in other books on same - that she ran up two big ensigns, one on both fore and main masts also.

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“We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
“A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942

Joseph R,

Re: Image in your Post of 30 March

Are you sure that is a white ensign which that member of the KGV class is flying? I'm not!

Hi All,

There are a few issues with flags, when they are seen and why, sometimes in practice firings we see an indication flag, or if operating with aircraft the aircraft flag is flown together with pendant no flags.

I think during the Denmark Strait battle there would have Numerous flags flying from both ships at times, if I remember correctly Hood would have had a White Ensign and Admirals flag flown from her maimast and would have signalled turns by flag (ie blue 2 etc) and the open fire permission flag, both of which are executed when hauled down.

Prince of Wales would have a White Ensign flown from her mainmast and may have signalled enemy in sight by flag together with three numeral flags for the bearing on sighting Bismarck.

I've taken a look in the Reports and found in Captain Leach's narrative it states that at 00.15 on the 24th May the "Battle Ensign" was Hoisted. As stated above there would already have been a White Ensign flying from the mainmast of Prince of Wales but unfortunately this report does not state from which mast the Battle Ensign was hoisted.

However the Alan Coles book Flagship Hood was co written by Ted Briggs one of Hood's survivors and who was a signalman stationed on the compass platform. He states that after midnight on the 24th Vice Admiral Holland ordered the hoisting of Battle Ensigns from both ships. Briggs states that this flag measured some 24 feet by 12 feet and was hoisted from Hoods flag deck. Again no exact detail but we do know Hoods flag deck was forward around the Bridge structures.

Not sure if this helps, but this does infer a Battle Ensign or Ensigns were raised well before the battle, and would be additional to the White Ensigns already flying.

Best wishes
Cag.

What would those evidence be? Every photo I’ve seen where anti-fouling paint is visible along with the above water portion of the ship’s sides, the anti-fouling paint had a much darker tone. The only exception seems to be dry dock photos where parts of the ship substantially below waterline appeared to be lighter because they seem to be encrusted with barnacles.

I also looked on line for color photos of the models in NMN, I did not find any where the underwater anti-fouling paint was gray and lighter on tone tham the hull sides.

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Assessing the impact of new area rug under modeling table.

Tried several methods to enhance said 'ensign' so as to be more discernible, but not much luck. Make of it what you will.

If someone had a very high res image, they could crop to the area of the 'ensign' (and post, or email me) and 'maybe' I'd have a better chance, but..........................not much detail there to enhance to begin with unfortunately.

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“We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
“A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942

The IWM caption for this image of Duke of York states that she is conducting an exercise, so the flag flown at the foretopmast is unlikely to be a battle ensign.

Thank you for your inputs Kevin and tjstoneman. No-one else appears to have anything to say, so I will "top this one off." My educated guess is and it is reinforced by what tjstoneman reports, this is a large plain red flag, which was flown by all British warships when they were carrying out a practice shoot. Thus it is not a battle ensign!

PS This is not an "April Fool" message.