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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:49 am 
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EJFoeth wrote:



Hi EJ

this link no longer works do you have another please sir...I'm working my way through the information that's easily available for 'Hood' before looking deeper..

cheers

Pete


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:05 am 
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Unfortunately not... I noticed the link went dead a few years ago. I did save a lof of these images to a DVD; I'll see if I can find them. Most of the images are those also shown in Ian Johnston's book; the image quality in the book is far superior.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:08 am 
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EJFoeth wrote:
Unfortunately not... I noticed the link went dead a few years ago. I did save a lof of these images to a DVD; I'll see if I can find them. Most of the images are those also shown in Ian Johnston's book; the image quality in the book is far superior.


Thanks' EJ, any help from your vast experience on this beautiful ship would be very much appreciated..

cheers

Pete


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:18 am 
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Morning chaps

I'm in need of info about the boiler vents on the shelter deck, under the Admiral's signal platform, these are the area's marked '3' on this drawing from the AOTS book

Image

I can make out the various rooms and plan to do a representation of this focusing on the area that can be seen which leads me to the vents, are these enclosed areas that go from floor to ceiling or are they shorter or perhaps just grates to walk over? I have no reference to this area or these vents to help. I shall put this question in my build thread too but suspect this may reach more people here.

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Pete


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:07 pm 
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Hi All

Hi Greenglade, I'm pretty sure that the forward most ones of No3 were floor to ceiling as they connect to the outlets situated on the signal deck.

The rear ones exit in the space under the signal deck, if you go to Mr Foeth's unbelievably excellent build log Im sure he deals with these. The two rear ones will be seen but only the starboard forward one is out in the open as the port one is hidden in the reading room No5.

Hope this is of some help
Best wishes
Cag.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:42 pm 
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Hi Cag, thanks for the reply, yes EJ helped direct me in the right direction for the vents, I have covered the recent developments in my recent updates.

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Pete


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:51 am 
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Hi guys

I need a little more info if anyone can help please....does anyone know the width of the boot topping (water) line?, I know it's level which in 1/200 is approx 43.5 mm from the bottom but I don't know it's width.
Any help would be much appreciated...

Pete


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:08 pm 
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greenglade wrote:
Hi guys

I need a little more info if anyone can help please....does anyone know the width of the boot topping (water) line?, I know it's level which in 1/200 is approx 43.5 mm from the bottom but I don't know it's width.
Any help would be much appreciated...

Pete


just to add, I have been studying some photo's/drawings and think that the figure I gave for the water level is for the ship as built, I took this from the AOTS hull bulkhead profiles which I guess is marked as built. I know that she was sitting much lower when sunk, a problem she had throughout her career, in fact it's clearly shown in the two 1/600 drawings in AOTS, one for 1920, the other for 1941 so I need to bear this in mind. Looking at photos, the top of the booting is about 1/3rd up the second recessed plate down from the top (hope that makes sense (approx 52mm up from bottom in 1/200)), so i have the top line, the width is not decided yet. On measuring both the trumpeter and Pontos artwork which look the same the topping is much narrower than the photo's suggest, approx 3mm wide in 1/200. This is nothing like the photo's which show the topping much wider, perhaps 8 or 10 mm in 1/200? To cover all bases I've just ordered a variety of sizes, the 3 widest being 5,8 and 10 mm, i hope to be able to use one of these with perhaps 8 mm being the most likely candidate. I'll make a decision once I have the tape and have tried them for comparison to photo's.

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Pete


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:06 pm 
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I am almost certainly going to build my Hood as a waterline... and I have several photos that I will use as my main reference for the upper boot topping level.

You will have seen all the photos I will use before (they are easily found), but always make sure they are of the right period... there is also a photo which I cant find right now that shows Hood either making a turn or travelling at quite a speed and you can see the bottom of the boot topping... from memory it ends at the top of the bulge, but again, I think if you do a search you will find it easily enough.

The most important thing here is finding photos of Hood for the right time frame... this first one is pretty useful... and has a lot of additional information with careful study. I have a much higher resolution of it, but I have posted it at the maximum size allowed on the forum (if you click on it...). You should find it online at around 1700 wide and is much, much better.

Attachment:
Hood, hull sides, late.jpg
Hood, hull sides, late.jpg [ 165.72 KiB | Viewed 460 times ]


If I can find the photo shown the bottom of the boot topping before you do, I will post it.

I cant remember whether it was in a book or online... but its somewhere!

I'm impressed with your progress so far... and I always look forward to your updates on the Picture Post/ Work in Progress section... always very interesting and with a modellers thought processes in terms of interpretation and application.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:17 am 
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I think that the picture you are refering too Bill is in Warship Profile 19....I did a little more research last night and getting closer to choosing 8 mm as the width...it looks good at that size which of course scales to 1.6 meter full size...Later today I'll take another look to see if I can find a picture showing the plimsole markings , or should I say...how many divisions are shown on the topping as this needs to match the dry transfers that Pontos have done. On taking a closer look at the artwork by Trumpeter and Pontos they have shown the waterline when built which is wrong, she sat much lower as photos show. Interestingly, if measuring from the bottom of the topping as shown by the artwork and measuring up to where we can see it in photos and then scale to 1/200 it equates to approx 7.96 mm, another + for settling on 8 mm. Once I have the tape which is due tomrrow from Amazon I'll see how it looks.

Cheers

Pete


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:18 am 
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Found something in RA Burt... British Battleships 1919-1945

This is a little earlier than the period we are all modelling, but I doubt the bottom line of the boot topping would change.

I have a larger scan if you would like it emailed, but here is a 1200 wide version:

Attachment:
IMG_20180120_0001 copy.jpg
IMG_20180120_0001 copy.jpg [ 159.15 KiB | Viewed 418 times ]


I hope there is enough contrast on your screen to see the point at which the boot topping tops and the hull 'red' starts...

While I was looking through some other photos I found this... Its listed as of an earlier period, Jan 16 1936. As you can see, anchor removed, no degaussing cable and no sign of the platform on X Turret. But what are those angles supports within the boot topping seemingly linking the hull plating to the anti-torpedo bulge? I have never seen these on any full hull Hood model before...

Attachment:
Hood, boot topping supports small.jpg
Hood, boot topping supports small.jpg [ 275.77 KiB | Viewed 418 times ]


Here is a close up...

Attachment:
Boot topping detail and supports.jpg
Boot topping detail and supports.jpg [ 169.09 KiB | Viewed 418 times ]


And an even tighter crop. I cant do much better than this is it is hitting the resolution of the photo in the book...

Attachment:
tight crop on support.jpg
tight crop on support.jpg [ 16.91 KiB | Viewed 418 times ]


But there certainly appears to be indicating this is a stand off of some sort, not a solid plate... so small outflow pipes? You can see main outflows above the boot topping in the first photo, there is water coming out of them!

I just found this quite interesting and would be a very interesting additional detail on a full hull Hood... mainly because I have never seen them on one before...

(Right, I have been procrastinating enough... time to get on with mine!)

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:06 am 
I remember I welded some plates at the hull just above the waterline, because of damage, to a USS Navy ship many years ago (±1985) in Den Helder/The Netherlands, just to bring the ship at home to the US.

Yes, I was realy astonished, but that was the reason. Only some penetrant inspection on the weldings was done.
Just to let you know, how they think and work (if they only rely on ther home shipyards).

Another reason: Remember: a dock yard is very expensive and usually busy and especially with so many Royal Navy ships at that time. Sometimes they just take a temporary solution to tide over to the next planned docking period.

And yes, I'm following this thread with a lot of interest, because I am building the Hachette version (with the Pontos set for the Trumpeter).

Many thanks for sharing your experience and suggestions to make a proper build of the HMS Hood, which she deserve.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:11 pm 
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Interesting Bill...I agree about the bottom of the booting not changing, that was my thoughts too, yes she got heavier but it wasn't that much percentage wise, changing the booting completly wouldn't make sense in my mind, adding a little to the top to compensate does. Those brackets are a mystery to me, they seem clear enough with hints of in other photos too although difficult to tell. The Armour belt was bolted from behind so nothing to do with that, they seem to go from the 12" armour down to the anti torpedo bulge, no real sign of any towards the front of the ship. Hood was for her time a very advanced ship, better protected than the QE class BB's in all but deck having an inch less side armour but angled which gives her more. She also had the hollow steel tubes packed in her bulge to reduce blast pressure from a torpedo hit and aid in buoyancy. She was an impressive ship and fast too.....she just needed a couple more inches of deck armour...:)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:13 pm 
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I've been digging a little deeper Bill...still no closer to what these are or for how long they were on the ship but one thing that I have noted is that in the sequence of photo's taken during her build the bulge top plates were left off during her launch and remained so for many months after. She was launched with nothing on her decks bar the barbettes, the bulge top plates were still missing after her funnels and bridge superstructure had been built which I would assume took some time. Perhaps the new 'hollow tubes (crushed tubes) weren't ready to be filled into this space till much later after her launch? The straps that you have noticed going from the armour belt to the top of the bulges would have been attached after the bulges had been filled with said tubes and the top plates had been fitted to cover them over and made watertight, in fact I believe they were 'airtight' as this was part of the protection system designed into the bulges.

All very intriguing....:)

Pete


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:26 pm 
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That photo was dated much later than her launch... around Jan 1936 if the Burt book has captioned the photo correctly.

There could be a cover plate fitted over... B15 on page 60 in AOTS shows some brackets supporting the plate over the crushing tubes... they could be what we are seeing, but I dont think so, I think there would be much more of a step if that was the case.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:27 am 
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This is HMS Prince of Wales, perhaps a nice indicator. I'd estimate about 8.5" for this boot topping.

Attachment:
draughtmarks.jpg
draughtmarks.jpg [ 178.53 KiB | Viewed 317 times ]


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:57 pm 
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Thanks EJ...another question guys...does anyone have a picture of the stern with the degaussing cable fitted?...it seems to cover the stream anchor hawser entry going from it's position on the side?

Pete


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:21 am 
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Hi guys...I've managed to answer my own question re the stern thanks to photo's of the wreck on the Hood association site and by taking another look at the drawings in the AOTS book. While doing this I noticed two things or should I say mistakes that I had made, first I had the degaussing cable too low at the stern and second I had the stern hawser too high...think I was concentrating so much on getting the hole between hull and deck to line up whilst missing the nearest portholes that I failed to pay enough attention to it's actual position, I had it far too high? Anyway I have corrected this now and now know that the cable went over the top, I knew it wouldn't be below as this would get damaged but I wasn't sure in case the stream anchor had been removed..yes I know that would be impractical but that's what happens when one overthinks things...:)

Here's the picture for others...

Image

Pete


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:08 pm 
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Hi all

Currently working on my Trumpeter 1/350 scale Hood.

I've been doing some modifications, using the 1/200 Pontos upgrade set as a reference, as I believe this is probably some of the best researched material currently availiable, and Pontos have plenty of good high resolution photos on their website.

My aim is not to do a 100% correct representation of her in May '41, just to improve some of the more grievous errors on the 1/350 kit.

After I've begun detailing a few questions have arisen:


Does anyone know if the small cranes near A-turret were always deployed as the kit depicts, or if they could be collapsed - and if so: Where were they stored? I would guess the latter would be the case, as (provided that the kit dimensions are actually correct!) they would interfere with the turret traverse otherwise. Also the Pontos Kit suggests that a second pair of these cranes should be added next to B-turret as well?

Did all four vickers machine gun mounts have splinter shields added? Judging by the Pontos instructions I get the impression it was only the case for the aft pair.

A minor detail, but exactly where would the collapsed large accomodation ladders be stored when not in use? It would be kind of nice to include them somewhere on the quarterdeck.

And finally: The Pontos set suggests that there should be no carley floats above the paravane on the bridge structure. Instead a single carley float should be mounted above the spare booms. Anyone know how correct this is, or if it is just a guesstimate on behalf of the designers (The Kagero Publishing 3d render of the ship actually has all three floats added, although I don't consider this a particularly reliable a source)?

Thanks in advance! :)


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:18 am 
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1) Small cranes were rarely deployed, nearly always stored. If I had to guess, in the paravane lockers in the breakwater. See http://ontheslipway.com/?p=1607
2) B-turret cranes? Never seen those? Do yo have an example?
3) Aft Vickers had shields, forgot about the fwd ones :wave_1:
4) All large accommodation ladders, as well as the ladders from the fwd and quarterdeck, were stowed when at sea. Naturally there aren't many pictures, however, sometimes the large ladders were stored flt on the quarterdeck, so you have some leeway. I think I'll add a few ladders like below

Attachment:
22.jpg
22.jpg [ 171.18 KiB | Viewed 34 times ]


If I had to guess, the center accomodation ladders are just behind the bulkhead. The quarterdeck ladders could be inside, or simply on deck below the boat deck, out of sight.

5) The Pontos suggestion on Carley's follows the Hood associating advice and is correct (of course). See http://ontheslipway.com/?p=1617


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