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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 5:27 am 
EJF,

It is now clear to me that my original post on the matter in question got "lost" in transfer, so as I stated I will now try to recover from memory what was in it, in reply to your post of 7.42am 8 July.

"C:" the "rope/pulley" appears to be a purchase/tackle. It is difficult to determine its exact purpose but it might be one of the working guys that were used to move the main derrick laterally when hoisting one of the boom boats in and outboard. The part to the left may be a wire rope pennant that joined the top of the purchase to the head of the main derrick thus reducing the length of the purchase itself. It was not associated with hoisting/lowering the seaboats: that was done by means of the falls; which can be seen rigged and holding the boat at the davit head. Other purchases can be seen on deck in the group of pictures in your post of 10.10am the same day. They may be associated with the main derrick or another one that was to be "worked" later.

With reference to "D." The "T" shaped fittings shown stowed inside the zareba are probably portable galley funnels. These items are to be seen frequently in other photographs of British warships of the earlier part of the 20th Century.

I had some trouble trying to determine what the "rings/hoops" are (the Royal Navy does, or did not have, "UFOs" in its stores inventory) as the whole of the object was not visible until I back-tracked to FW Allen's post of 9.56am 7 July, then it dawned on me. It is likely to be a spare, practice or ready-use lifebuoy. This is likely to have been painted dark red (possibly dark grey in war): not, please, not international orange! The "cabinet" (correctly, "locker," locked or not) and is likely to have been a stowage for the 4inch mounting's guns' crews' steel helmets.

I hope that this helps.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 11:32 am 
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Hi all
Is there a definitive source ( picture /plan etc) of the Hoods funnel stay layout as in 1941? All the models /pics I have seen ( including the "Anatomy of the Ship " and the Association website) seem to have different layouts for both the upper and lower ones . Naturally they would have been changed ( or would they?) over time with refits etc, but is there an "as sunk" layout?
Also what colour were they? I've seen what appears to be hull colour and very dark (black?) Again any "as sunk" info.
Any advice would be welcome.
Cheers
Dave C


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:48 pm 
Dave C,

If there is an "as sunk" lay-out, then the details will probably be shown on any amended "as fitted" drawings; which are held in the National Maritime Museum, specifically the Historic Photographs and Ships Plan Section. Failing that I fear that you will need to use photographic interpretation.

As for what they were made of the answer is (or would have been) steel wire rope. It is difficult to be precise about the colour but those that I saw in other of HM Ships were a very dark grey; which darkened with service/ accumulation of soot to almost black. One final point that you may not be aware of, the stays were usually fitted with insulators at points in them. These were porcelain, I believe and would have been of a chocolate brown colour.

Hope this helps.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2020 11:59 am 
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HI
I`m not really in a position to go to the NMM .so I guess its pictures and "best guess" .Maybe no one really knows for sure so I wont worry too much as long as it looks sensible! At least it looks like I`ve got the colour right!!
Thanks
Dave


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 4:36 pm 
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I'm a longtime lurker but finally registered and my first entry is a grovelling request for help!
I'm interested in building Hood in her 1937/38 Mediterranean guise and I wondered if anyone on the forum has a list of modifications required to backdate the 1/350 Trumpeter kit to that period?
The Hood Association website has quite a few photos from this period but only being a relatively new convert to naval modelling I'm not sure of what to look for, the main differences are in the mid section superstructure and armament I think but any steer would be very much appreciated.
I have the AOTS which hasn't got many drawings specifically for that period but are there other books that would be helpful?

Dave


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 3:28 am 
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DaveyJones wrote:
I'm a longtime lurker but finally registered and my first entry is a grovelling request for help!
I'm interested in building Hood in her 1937/38 Mediterranean guise and I wondered if anyone on the forum has a list of modifications required to backdate the 1/350 Trumpeter kit to that period?
The Hood Association website has quite a few photos from this period but only being a relatively new convert to naval modelling I'm not sure of what to look for, the main differences are in the mid section superstructure and armament I think but any steer would be very much appreciated.
I have the AOTS which hasn't got many drawings specifically for that period but are there other books that would be helpful?

Dave

Backdating is quite a task. The problem is the 5.5" Secondary guns removed in 1940. Their removal led to quite a lot structural work including covering in openings and quite a few mods to the boat deck. 1938 fit is slightly easier as you can keep the pompoms and quad 0.5", and 4 of the twin 4". There is a lot of stuff out there on the Hood, but a lot contradicts other sources and you are never quite sure who is right. I also intend to build a 38 Hood but i work in 1/700 so more choice but think its going to mean buying and early and late kit and trying to bash the two together. good luck


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2020 11:12 am 
Dave,

Re: Post of 4.36pm of 9 Oct

From what I can see, Raven and Roberts' "British Battleships of World War Two" and RA Burt's "British Battleships 1919 - 1939" appear to be the two best References concerning A's and A's effected to HMS HOOD through out her life, however, I consider that there is little in either publication regarding drawings of value to you. For those, you will have to look elsewhere.

I note that you wish to construct the model as she appeared in 1937/38 on the Mediterranean station. You will be, of course, aware that she had two minor refits in Malta at around this time viz 8 Nov to 16 Dec 1937 and 16 May to 22 June 1938. These were largely confined to the armament.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:55 pm 
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Actually scrub part of my previous post. Picked up a copy of "the Battleship Hood" by John Roberts. There are plans of the shelter/boat deck post 1940 and up to 1938 and there are massive differances in size shape and layout. Also it seems the refits in 37 and 38 added single 4" and not twin mounts as I thought. Also a lot of changes to the bridge structure in the 30s plus various directors chaged (type and position). On reflection i think it needs early an early kit for basic structure and shelter deck and later one for bridge and some AA, though more single 4" will need to be sourced. Bit of a nightmare really. Shame really because her 37 and 38 appearance was her best in my opinion, but backdating a late kit is going to be a labour of love and i would suggest the John Roberts book will be very useful.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:48 am 
Gcj,

Yes, I'd forgotten John Roberts' book in the "Anatomy" series: I remembered it about two hours after I'd pressed the "Submit" button on my last post: sorry! That said, one could now also add the book by a Mr Taylor (I can't remember his first name), that was published a few years back as another reference. I believe that it is good; certainly it is a big one.

I can't comment on the remainder of your post: I have never been tempted to construct a model of HMS HOOD by any method. However, back-tracking on a late appearance version of a kit of a ship to make an earlier one, certainly seems a recipe for frustration unless one is attracted by what will be the size of the result. A log of progress would be interesting to read though.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:29 am 
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I brought some Very fine after market 3-d printed turrets for the Hood from Simon Percival aka Micromaster. I noticed the shapes Of the 4 turrets are different. I didn’t know Hood’s 4 turrets were different. Can anyone help to confirm which turret goes in which position:

2 turrets are identical.

1 other turret had chamfered lower corners on its back plate

1 Other turret had bevel rear corner for its range finder ears.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 3:13 am 
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A Chamfered range finders
B back plate chamfered
X/Y rest


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 6:34 am 
Chuck,

Will your model of the ship be after the appendages to "X" gunhouse were added for the projected fitting of the aircraft catapult?
If so those will need to be added as I surmise that they are not present on what you bought.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 10:03 pm 
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I am building the Hood as completed in 1921. She will have fly off platforms on B and X turrets.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:11 am 
Noted. Thank you.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:11 am 
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I am trying to find some Detailed information aBout Hood’s fittings and color in 1921:

1. Were there stanchions on the secondary 5.5 inch deck supporting the boat deck above? In 1921 the boat deck appears to be parred back compared to later. I want to know whether stanchions seem in later photos were added when the boat deck was extended over the former 5.r inch position, or were they installed right form the beginning

2. Were the doors on deck house between the rows of 5.5 inch guns Normal water tight Doors with dogs, or just plain doors?

3. In a photos from the early 1930s the bulkheads Seen through the embrasures for the 2 forward Most 5.5 inch guns appears to be painted white. Were these painted white on 1921? Were the deck house betweem the midship rows of 5.5 inch Also painted white?

4. Is the underside of the boat deck above the 5.5. Inch battery painter white or hull color?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:32 am 
Chuck,

I think that you'd better start doing some more serious photographic research than you seem to have done to date as a number of the answers that you are looking for are already "out" there.

This may help you: a very good series of photograph of the ship were taken by what I take to be the official photographer to John Brown as the ship was being completed. I believe that these are now in one of the Glasgow city archives, however, Maurice Northcott made good use of them when he wrote "HOOD, Design and Construction." This was an Ensign Special and published by Bivouac Books in 1975.

Using what references I have (Northcott), the following is taken from those photographs of the ship as completed.

a. The deck of the Boat or Shelter Deck did not extend to the ship's side, it did however, over hang the superstructure below it slightly and photographs show that some stanchions were fitted below it between P4 and P5 mountings on the port side. The same appears to apply to the starboard side but it is difficult to be sure as there is a large timber rack fitted inboard abaft S4 mounting.

b. It is clear from Northcott, that on completion, the screens of the superstructure inboard of the 5.5 mountings on both sides were painted the grey of the remainder of the hull. As these areas were "open," there would have been no need to attempt to lighten the paint scheme of the over-hang of the Shelter Deck.

c. One cannot see any of the doors that you are asking about in Northcott, however, because these were fitted to screens of the weather deck superstructures, I can't imagine that they would not have been W/T doors with clips.

d. Concerning what might be properly called the gun "galleries" for P/S 1 and 2 (ignoring the 5.5s fitted forward on the Shelter Deck). Northcott does not give any clear indication as to what tone the screens and deck-heads inside the galleries were painted though the images in his book seem to indicate that they were painted grey on completion. Painting the deck-head white later might make sense in order to lighten the gloom but when it would have been done, I cannot say. I would advise you to aim a question at the HOOD Website; which might be able to help. Note: there is evidence in Roberts and Raven's "British Battleships of World War 2" that some of the "Revenge" class battleships did paint the underside of their Shelter Decks white during the 20's and 30's but not all of them.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:02 pm 
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every photo I’ve seen showing the stanchions under the boat deck shows they were painted partially white, from maybe a foot above deck level upwards. this suggest to me the underside of the deck above might also have been painted white.

the reason why i though the doors on the midship deck houses between 5.5” might not be the heavy variety with dogs is much of the deck house abaft the funnels is devoted to the supernumerary functions such as ward room, officer accommodation. also they are considerably sheltered from the weather by the superstructure widening shelter deck on either end, and the solid bulwark outboard, and they are near midship so their watertight integrity is unlikely to matter in an damaged condition.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2020 4:08 am 
Chuck,

Re: First paragraph. If the stanchions during the period that you wish to model the ship were painted white with a grey "kicking strip," then paint them white/grey. The underside of the Shelter Deck may therefore have been painted white also, in which case you need to prove it by further research. I cannot help you with that but I warn you that if you take it to that extent, you are taking your research into area of "the last 2 and a half per cent." That is my expression for when the effort for finding the answer is more than the result is worth; which may not be available anyway!

I note what you say about the doors, however, it is obvious from photographs of other British warship of the period, that all doors fitted in the weather deck superstructures, whether apparently important to water-tight integrity or not, were water-tight "mit klips" (apologies for my cod German). These would also have had an additional important function post World War 1 in that they would also have been gas-tight.

Best wishes with your continued quest.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 6:38 am 
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Recently I’ve been discussing with Frank Allen of the official Hood website weather or not HMS Hood had corticine (or not) on her forward shelterdeck, i.e., the main deck where the bridge and funnels are situated. Here’s a small summary of our discussions and also; can anyone offer some additional insights of opinion? We more or less ended up with: no, we observe some pattern in a steel deck. Note: both corticene and corticine found but as I found references to “The Corticine Floor Covering Company” we’ll go with that spelling.

Attachment:
corticine_01.jpg

From McDermaid, Shipyard Pracice as applied to warship construction (1911)

McDermaid, “Shipyard Practice as applied to warship construction”, 1911, “The back of the corticine is covered with knotting, and along the edges galvanized strips 1 inch wide are worked, which are secured to the plating by metal screws (see figure), the plating under the corticine being first thoroughly cleaned and coated with an adhesive mixture of resin and tallow.”
“Butt straps are sometimes fitted to both thicknesses of the deck, those for the upper thickness being on top of the deck, and for the lower thickness on the under side, as in Fig. p. 50, but no butt straps are fitted on top of a deck on which corticine has to be laid.”

“Upper Deck. The portion of this deck outside the forecastle is planked, and where the plating is of a single thickness the edge strips can be worked continuously on top of the deck. When the deck is doubled the butt straps can be placed either on top or underneath the deck, or both, if special strength is required. Under the forecastle corticine is laid, and the plating must be flush, edge strips and butt straps being placed on the underside. As in the case in the case of main deck, special stringers are fitted in wake of barbettes.”

Manual of Seamanship, vol II, 1932, pp292 “On weather decks and magazine flats, the steel plating is sheathed with wood; in living spaces it is covered with corticene; in bathrooms it is tiled; elsewhere it is general left bare”

Attachment:
corticine_02.jpg

From Johnston, Clydebank Battlecruisers, HMAS Australia. A good example of corticene including the brass covering strips around not only the edges but basically all deck protrusions.



Attachment:
corticine_03.jpg

Hood's strip pattern is slighly similar and present all over the shelderdeck, also after modifications. From Anatomy of the ship: “The superstructure platforms, living spaces, lobbies, passages and store rooms were covered with corticene (a type of linoleum) glued to the deck and held down by brass strips. Other areas including the forward end of the shelter deck were plain steel although the flats below the upper deck were usually of chequered plating.”

Attachment:
corticine_04.jpg

HMS Hood, upper platform. Here a very smooth deck plus brass strips with an evenly spaced bolt pattern is observed.
Attachment:
corticine_05.jpg

Under construction. Decks partially wetting resulting in strong contrast differences. Superstructure decks show (faintly) brass strips. A strip pattern are clearly visible on the fwd shelter deck as well. (The larger strip in the bottom right corner is an expansion slot cover plate.

Attachment:
corticine_06.jpg

Here we see HMS Hood under construction showing the shelterdeck being laid; at right the first layer with a very regular holt pattern, at left the second deck layer is well underway.What is this white we observe? Some paint or?

Attachment:
corticine_07.jpg

Slightly later, the entire deck has been covered by a second layer of plating. The regular pattern both forward and aft well visible, matching the pattern in earlier pics (and pics below).

Attachment:
corticine_08.jpg

This closeup of the shelterdeck does not show a brass strip around the edges and the pattern in the deck as observed during construction is clearly visible. No riveting is visible in the deck plates either.

Attachment:
corticine_09.jpg

Again from McDermaid, many types or rivets can be used, several of them flush. McDermaid does comment that below wood decks the deck must first be faired. But what’s the purpose of these strips on Hood’s deck?


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:53 am 
Re: EJ Foeth's Post of 6.38am 01 Nov.

Further reference should be made to the later publication by RN Newton RCNC: "Practical Construction of Warships published by Longmans in 1941. It later went in several subsequent editions.

Page 99 states that the edges of "corticene" (I will not argue the toss over the spelling but it is known to have been made in Kirkcaldy, Fife in Scotland) were protected by either galvanized iron or naval brass strips. A table of illustrations on Page 9 describes the galvanized edge strips for "linoleum" to be typically 1½ inch wide by ½ inch thick and of rounded section when applied to a rivetted structure: the brass strip may have been of a slightly different scantling. Newton also gives details of a slightly different adhesive mix to that of the quoted NJ McDermaid RCNC; which Newton was published as an up-date of, however, that is of no consequence here.

What one is looking at in the attachments to EJF's post are probably one of several finishes a. Painted galvanized strip (03, 05 and 08 jpg) b. Polished or buffed galvanized strip (04 jpg) and c Polished brass strip (02 jpg). It is of note that the finishes in b and c. are on the Flag Deck, where a measure of "bull and flannel" would have been required, with the men to effect it. Finish a appears to have been that used in the remainder where polishing was not felt necessary by the powers that be. I therefore assess that HMS HOOD did have corticene applied to the forward part of the Shelter Deck.

As a digression 03 jpg is of some interest in that it shows a wood spurn-water intended to keep unnecessary over spill of water off the corticene: the wood cladding of the deck intended as a measure of thermal insulation to the compartments below.


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