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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 4:11 am 
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FW_Allen wrote:

I agree that slate grey is more likely than black. Whatever colour it was, it doesn’t seem to have been standard red (not after 1936 anyway).


Frank,

Whilst this might seem pedantic, experience digging into RN documentation from the time has taught me that things were normally worded a certain way for good reason. Often this reason is difficult for us to fathom up to a century later but from custom and practice it would have been clear to them back then.

For obvious reasons, The Rate Book of Naval Stores described things fairly deliberately in its lists.
Attachment:
Peacock and Buchan's.JPG
Peacock and Buchan's.JPG [ 87.3 KiB | Viewed 600 times ]


That a distinction is made in the Rate Book between the "Slate" (note not slate grey) colour of Peacock and Buchan's second coat protective anti-corrosion paint and the "Grey" colour of their final/outer coat anti-fouling paint says to me that they were different. Therefore in the case of the final/outer 'anti fouling' coat, if using Peacock & Buchan's paint, Hood's bottom would have been "grey" not "slate grey" in your parlance.

This begs an obvious question! We would be dealing with civilian paint colours not any of the AP507 shades. Back then there was not the infinite range of civilian paint colours we are used to today. The colour "Slate" was a well understood concept and existed as a standard colour in the BS381C range (1941 measured RF 12.8%):
Attachment:
BS381C No 34 Slate.jpg
BS381C No 34 Slate.jpg [ 76.43 KiB | Viewed 600 times ]

But some deeper digging is perhaps needed re Peacock & Buchan's "grey"? Are there any photos of Hood in dry dock (ideally 1936-41) showing her bottom? We need to assess the tone of this grey.

Best wishes,

Richard


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:39 am 
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Suddenly this image of Missouri and antifouling grey does not look bizzare to me.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:49 am 
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2 x 16 ft dinghy (most sources have 1, pics suggest 2)
1 x 16 ft fast motor boat
3 x 25 ft fast motor boat
2 x 27 ft whaler
1 x 30 ft gig
2 x 32 ft motorized cutter
3 x 35 ft fast motor boat (1 admiral's barge version, rare)
1 x 42 ft motorized barge
1 x 45 ft motorized barge


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:56 pm 
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Thanks for that. After having a good look at the parts and the micromaster boats thats pretty much the list I came up with although I wasn't sure what that 3rd 35ft fast motor boat was (thought it might be a 25ft motor cutter). I didn't see the 30ft gig or 16ft fast motor boat though. Where would they have been stored?

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Last edited by Ady on Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:31 pm 
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dick wrote:
But some deeper digging is perhaps needed re Peacock & Buchan's "grey"? Are there any photos of Hood in dry dock (ideally 1936-41) showing her bottom? We need to assess the tone of this grey.


Excellent info Richard. Yes, it would be good to know what P&B’s grey looked like.

Here is a photo from ‘37/38: http://www.hmshood.com/hoodtoday/models/tips/ap507c6.jpg
The left hand image is more applicable in this case. We’re not sure, however if this is before or after scraping/cleaning in preparation for re-coating. The right hand image, on the other hand, appears to shows the topside being coated with red lead and presumably the bottom having its protective undercoating applied (I labeled the photo to show where the final colours should go).

Just curious, but are there similar codes associated with other P&B colors? They made more than grey right? We also need to see if we can determine Hood’s pre 1936 antifouling colours.

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 Post subject: Pontos 1/200 Fret#5
PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:48 pm 
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Hi everyone, hope you're all doing good?

I am after a little advice please.. I am trying to purchase an additional fret#5 from Pontos. I have mailed their "Help@" email twice now and have been totally ignored twice.

Does anyone have a direct email address that might be more helpful please?

Regards

Nige

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 Post subject: Re: Pontos 1/200 Fret#5
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:36 am 
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Is this about the Hood?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:45 am 
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Ady wrote:
Thanks for that. After having a good look at the parts and the micromaster boats thats pretty much the list I came up with although I wasn't sure what that 3rd 35ft fast motor boat was (thought it might be a 25ft motor cutter). I didn't see the 30ft gig or 16ft fast motor boat though. Where would they have been stored?


The 30ft gig is stored on a 32ft motorized cutter (starboard side). The two 16 ft sailing dinghies are stored on cradles fixed to the side of the centre structure between the funnels; the 16 ft fast motor boat is on starboard of that structure, stored on the boat deck.

Image

This images from the Eaves collection of the HMS Hood association shows both types of 16ft boats, as well as one 25ft fast motor boat. The gig on top of the cutter is technically visible in the background (but not very obvious in this image). Boats are usually covered at sea, more interesting when not.


Last edited by EJFoeth on Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:04 am 
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FW_Allen wrote:

Here is a photo from ‘37/38: http://www.hmshood.com/hoodtoday/models/tips/ap507c6.jpg
The left hand image is more applicable in this case. We’re not sure, however if this is before or after scraping/cleaning in preparation for re-coating. The right hand image, on the other hand, appears to shows the topside being coated with red lead and presumably the bottom having its protective undercoating applied (I labeled the photo to show where the final colours should go).


I agree that the left-hand photo could be interpreted as after cleaning in preparation for painting; in the right-hand picture we could be looking at the second (slate) protective coat of paint (rather than the anti-fouling coat as the photo itself is labelled). We need to be sure that we are looking at the third/final anti-fouling coat of paint. For this we need photos of Hood’s bottom with the draught marks painted up. These would have been painted last of all, over the boot topping and lower hull anti-fouling paint layer. Being welded-on steel Roman numerals these were fairly permanent fixtures on a ship. These are Hood’s in 1918:

Attachment:
zd Hood 1918 draught marks forward set.jpg
zd Hood 1918 draught marks forward set.jpg [ 53.84 KiB | Viewed 484 times ]

Attachment:
zd Hood 1918 draught marks aft set.jpg
zd Hood 1918 draught marks aft set.jpg [ 114.36 KiB | Viewed 484 times ]


It was custom and practice to take the painting of these well below the waterline and this continued in wartime:
Attachment:
Draught marks various.jpg
Draught marks various.jpg [ 396.85 KiB | Viewed 484 times ]


FW_Allen wrote:
Just curious, but are there similar codes associated with other P&B colors? They made more than grey right? We also need to see if we can determine Hood’s pre 1936 antifouling colours.


Not sure I understand what you mean by "codes"? The only colours mentioned for the P&B paints under the "Ships' Bottom Compositions" Rate Book heading (Sub Head E. 7) were Black, Slate, Grey and Black (flat or gloss). There were no codes. I guess if someone could turn up a P&B paint catalogue from the era that might show their grey. They were a specialist manufacturer of marine preservative and anti-fouling paints and I would say that it is quite possible that they did only have one "grey".

What you saw was the Peacock & Buchan's protective and anti-fouling paint listing from the 1940/41 Rate Book:
Attachment:
P&B 1940-41.JPG
P&B 1940-41.JPG [ 123.67 KiB | Viewed 484 times ]
The previous Rate Book I copied pages from is the 1937/38 edition. It says exactly the same. The numbers to the right are the price the Admiralty was willing to pay per cwt in £ s d:
Attachment:
P&B 1937-38.jpg
P&B 1937-38.jpg [ 158.94 KiB | Viewed 484 times ]


Sadly I did not copy the "Ships' Bottom Compositions" pages from any earlier Rate Books but few seem to survive in any case. The only two relevant to Hood that I have come across are the 1919 and 1931 Editions but I do not know what they might have said about the authorised P&B colours then.


Last edited by dick on Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:01 pm 
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EJFoeth wrote:
Ady wrote:
Thanks for that. After having a good look at the parts and the micromaster boats thats pretty much the list I came up with although I wasn't sure what that 3rd 35ft fast motor boat was (thought it might be a 25ft motor cutter). I didn't see the 30ft gig or 16ft fast motor boat though. Where would they have been stored?


The 30ft gig is stored on a 32ft motorized cutter (starboard side). The two 16 ft sailing dinghies are stored on cradles fixed to the side of the centre structure between the funnels; the 16 ft fast motor boat is on starboard of that structure, stored on the boat deck.

Image

This images from the Eaves collection of the HMS Hood association shows both types of 16ft boats, as well as one 25ft fast motor boat. The gig on top of the cutter is technically visible in the background (but not very obvious in this image). Boats are usually covered at sea, more interesting when not.


Ah right I get it now. Cheers for the help it's much appreciated.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:10 pm 
Frank and Dick,

For what this is worth. The Southampton Archives Office holds material relevant to Peacock and Buchan Ltd in the form of account books, testimonials and advertising material under the File Number D/Z 981 (I have not taken the matter any further).
That information was obtained by "Googling." Some more historical information is also available via the same search method. P and B Ltd appear to have been taken over some time in the 1960's by another firm, which might still be trading.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:45 pm 
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Guest wrote:
Frank and Dick,

For what this is worth. The Southampton Archives Office holds material relevant to Peacock and Buchan Ltd in the form of account books, testimonials and advertising material under the File Number D/Z 981 (I have not taken the matter any further).
That information was obtained by "Googling." Some more historical information is also available via the same search method. P and B Ltd appear to have been taken over some time in the 1960's by another firm, which might still be trading.


Yes, I saw that too. We need someone in the Southampton area to have a look for us once the Covid restrictions are relaxed!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:52 pm 
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FYI all, I just found a reference, also in Hood’s books (ADM 136/13, Volume 1), that states Hood’s bottom was painted with Peacocks & Buchan’s antifouling grey on 20/1/20 and 20/2/20. It was a manuscript entry that I’d overlooked before. I also see a reference to P&B grey being used in 1925 as well. There are a few gaps here and there, but for the most part, it seems she was a P&B ship from start to finish.

By the way, thanks for the tip “Guest!” I was aware of the Sealocote connection but hadn’t thought to check the Southampton Archives. Maybe we can get someone in the area to take a look.

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 Post subject: Re: Pontos 1/200 Fret#5
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:07 pm 
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Timmy C wrote:
NigelR32 wrote:
Hi everyone, hope you're all doing good?

I am after a little advice please.. I am trying to purchase an additional fret#5 from Pontos. I have mailed their "Help@" email twice now and have been totally ignored twice.

Does anyone have a direct email address that might be more helpful please?

Regards

Nige


Is this about the Hood?


Yes Timmy, sorry, have I posted it in the wrong place?

Nige

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 Post subject: Re: Pontos 1/200 Fret#5
PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 2:25 pm 
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Yes, this thread is sitting on its own instead of as a post/reply within the Hood thread. I've merged it into there now. (in the future, use the New Reply button to ensure your post goes into the the topic it's meant for)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:57 am 
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Hi All

Hi Nigel, if I'm correct the fret 5 is the funnel revision, I think that fret was sent out with the kit to enable the large funnel version to be made.

I'm not sure if its available separately but also not sure why you're getting no response from Pontos unless the current world situation has forced a shutdown.

I think there are 3d printed alternatives out there if you're getting no joy from Pontos, sorry I can't be of further help but I'm sure the Hood Association website has a link on the 1/200 Trumpeter kit review to the manufacturers of the 3d alternatives.

If you have the Pontos set you could use the large Pontos funnel interior and cage etch parts together with the original Trumpeter larger funnel etch on 3d funnels?

Hope that helps a wee bit
Cag.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 3:55 pm 
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Cag wrote:
Hi All

Hi Nigel, if I'm correct the fret 5 is the funnel revision, I think that fret was sent out with the kit to enable the large funnel version to be made.

I'm not sure if its available separately but also not sure why you're getting no response from Pontos unless the current world situation has forced a shutdown.

I think there are 3d printed alternatives out there if you're getting no joy from Pontos, sorry I can't be of further help but I'm sure the Hood Association website has a link on the 1/200 Trumpeter kit review to the manufacturers of the 3d alternatives.

If you have the Pontos set you could use the large Pontos funnel interior and cage etch parts together with the original Trumpeter larger funnel etch on 3d funnels?

Hope that helps a wee bit
Cag.


Hi Cag,

Thanks for your reply. Fret # 5 is the fret for the forward funnel, Fre # 4 is for the rear funnel, which as we know is smaller in circumference. We can obtain an additional fret# 5 from Pontos, many have, and then expand the smaller kit part to make the correct rear funnel. I am aware there are aftermarket funnels available, however, the mesh and other PE detail from fret #4 will be too small to fit.

I find it strange, (and annoying) that they are ignoring my emails.

Nige

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:07 pm 
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It might just be your email provider is on their provider's default-to-spam list, or their inbox is full. For the first, you can try sending using a different email address (if you haven't already); for the latter, you can try posting in one of their existing threads in the Manufacturers & Suppliers section.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:15 am 
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Missing Pontos parts isn't really useful in a CASF thread and unrelated to the subject.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:48 am 
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Hi All,

Hi Nigel no problem wish I could be more of a help, it is odd that you've received no reply, but Timmy C may have answered that one.

Frank Allen contributed to the thread Pontos posted which created the etched set, so I'm sure Pontos keep an eye on these pages, so that may open an avenue.

If you need any info on Hood this is a great place to visit as Mr Allen and Mr Foeth are the experts on the subject, I do have the Pontos set which has the fret 5 which I got from the excellent Sovereign Hobbies, so if you need any info on the set itself drop me a PM and I'll answer any questions on it.

Best wishes
Can.


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