Calling all Ise (伊勢) and Hyuga (日向) fans

lisec · Post by **lisec** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:19 am

Come on,let see some pics,i`ll post mine as soon as possible

tenacioustanaka · Post by **tenacioustanaka** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:42 am

You definitely have a fan here. Don't have photos of a built kit, just a big fan of that class.

Perhaps the greatest disservice the IJN ever did during the Guadalcanal campaign was not committing her battlewagons in force, most notably the Hyugas and Nagatos. Perhaps it is fortuitous for the allies that she did not.

Miguel · Post by **Miguel** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:12 pm

I also love Ise Class

,my next year wish is to build the Hasegawa,the problem,I need some stuff from Joe World,which is hard to get

.Cheers

Dan K · Post by **Dan K** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:11 pm

I agree that notion that Guadalcanal would have been prolonged, if not more problematic, had the Hyugas been used rather than Hiei/Kirishaima. Makes for an ineresting short term what-if.

Filipe Ramires · Post by **Filipe Ramires** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:10 pm

Dan K wrote:I agree that notion that Guadalcanal would have been prolonged, if not more problematic, had the Hyugas been used rather than Hiei/Kirishaima. Makes for an ineresting short term what-if.

Yes, an interesting point indeed Dan. The thing is that Ise and Hyuga did have in fact much more firepower then the Kongo's but they lack the speed of the last ones. Speed was essential I guess to go through the Slot covered by darkness and get out before sunrise otherwise Cactus Airforce would be on them easier then if it was the Kongo's. Still, 24 14' guns versus 16 14' ones in a Bombardment or surface engagement surelly things would gone worst for US forces there.
Just my 2 cents anyway.

350z · Post by **350z** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:38 pm

Both Ises and both Fusos were most useless ships of IJN during WW2 where first two are known for their useless conversion to seaplane carriers and last two for the enormous "pagodas" and for participation in famous battle as victims. But... I have to admit that both classes were good looking ships and if they were upgraded same way as Kongo's ...

I built Ise '41 for my collection and I'll build Hyuga '44 ona day, not soon.

Pedro Brand�o · Post by **Pedro Brand�o** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:24 pm

Hello!

Well it's true, that Ise and Hyuga would put a lot of shels at Guadalcanal but the fact is that during the Guadalcanal campaing they were siting duks at Hashirajima

But there are two big ships nearby Guadalcanal from september till, at least January: Yamato and Mutsu!
Well I do not believe that the IJN would risk a single shot at the Yamato in the confined waters of guadalcanal. But why not the Mutsu? I do not believe that the speed is the problem because in the next day there will not be any aircraft at enderson field (at least capable of flying

)
...and the IJN would had 16' guns to fire at the South Dakota and the Washington :destroyer:

Pedro

Werner · Post by **Werner** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:32 pm

Because the Japanese truly did not know where the carrier aircraft were coming from. By their own accounting, all the USN carriers were sunk twice over. Higher authority obviously was beginning to lose faith in Japanese battle damage assessment of USN warships.

Besides, in 1942 the Japanese were still convinced a surface engagement in the vicinity of the Philippines was necessary. All four of the Yamato and Nagato class were required for this battle.

Anyway, Japanese 16-inch was mediocre at best. Japanese battleships *never* studied or practiced shore bombardment. It simply wasn't in their repertoire.

W

tenacioustanaka · Post by **tenacioustanaka** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 5:09 am

Werner wrote: Anyway, Japanese 16-inch was mediocre at best. Japanese battleships *never* studied or practiced shore bombardment. It simply wasn't in their repertoire.

W

While so very true one thing bears witness. The bombardment Henderson Field took on the night of 13/14 October 1942 was very nearly cataclysmic for the entire campaign. Both Haruna (firing HE rounds) and the Kongo (firing the special incendiary rounds) pounded the airfield(s) for over an hour with 973 rounds of 14inch.

Results:

Almost all AVGAS...GONE!!!
only 7 of 39 SBDs could fly immediately afterward.
No Operable TBFs (VT-8 was effectively out of business)
4 P-400s and 2 P-39s operable
VF-5 lost 5 wildcats leaving only 6 flyable

The Fighter 1 strip fared better with 18 of 30 marine Wildcats surviving.

Perhaps this was an isolated incident. Of course the IJN intended to repeat similar performances leading to the destruction of both the Hiei and Kirishima. Not practiced in the art of shore bombardment you say; "mediocre 16inchers"...Maybe... but at point blank range with those kinds of rounds it seems a moot point to me. Now, substitute 24 14inchers rather than 16 14inch gun tubes and the devastation would undoubtedly have been worse.

Besides I believe 8 inch gunfire from US CAs would be even less effective on the Hyugas, much less the Nagatos, than they were on the Hiei. The only major damage they did to Hiei was flood her steering compartment aft...and that by only ONE shell!

Filipe Ramires · Post by **Filipe Ramires** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 11:07 am

Werner wrote:Anyway, Japanese 16-inch was mediocre at best. Japanese battleships *never* studied or practiced shore bombardment. It simply wasn't in their repertoire.

W

You don't need to be much accurate when your target is dead stopped and with at least a 4 mile square area!!! Besides, no Navy had the proper training to shore bombardment. Besides the heavy shelling during D-Day most of the germans defences were operational. Same goes to the tiny islands that the japanese were defending (Saipan, etc etc). You don't need a direct hit to get a plane destroyed on the ground...shock waves or shrapnel are good enough to take out a plane...even worst goes to gas tanks and planes don't fly without gas.

Werner · Post by **Werner** » Sat Dec 31, 2005 1:06 pm

The USN did practice shore bombardment at Roosevelt Road (Vieques) before WW.II.

I bet they woud never risk the slower battleships at a place where the enemy's aircraft might appear. During the Guadalcanal campaign, I don't think either the Yamatos or Nagatos ever sailed south of Truk.

W

Filipe Ramires · Post by **Filipe Ramires** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:26 pm

Werner wrote:I bet they woud never risk the slower battleships at a place where the enemy's aircraft might appear.
W

Okinawa rings a bell for starters and the air menace was much more dangerous.

Werner · Post by **Werner** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:29 pm

Ummmmmmmmmm the war was all but over and this was an honor-saving exercise.

The Yamato did not even have enough fuel to return. They expected and hoped to die gloriously. For this they got their wish.

For my meaning, look to before Leyte. Before late 1944 the expectation was *still* that some great gun duel would decide the conflict and the big ships were held in reserve for this purpose.

W

Post by **JWintjes** » Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:13 pm

Werner wrote:
For my meaning, look to before Leyte. Before late 1944 the expectation was *still* that some great gun duel would decide the conflict and the big ships were held in reserve for this purpose.

W

Talk about a distorted perception of reality here...

I always wondered why they didn't try to use the big ships in some Doolittleish raid against the American rear. They surely didn't get a lot of mileage out of them at their moorings at Truk.

Jorit

Filipe Ramires · Post by **Filipe Ramires** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:43 am

JWintjes wrote:I always wondered why they didn't try to use the big ships in some Doolittleish raid against the American rear. They surely didn't get a lot of mileage out of them at their moorings at Truk.

Jorit

Jorit, as a matter of fact every single capital japanese ship on the home islands got out of harbour to hunt for the USN Task Force...thought they never got contact with them...they simply sleeped away.

lisec · Post by **lisec** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:15 pm

Here`s couple of pics of my Hyuga(Hasegawa 1/700).
No PE,sadly

Post by **Timmy C** » Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:17 pm

A very nice and clean model! OOB..yep, that's what I try to do too! (slowly changing towards using PE...for that Arizona in my stash). Like the riggin!

aeronautic · Post by **aeronautic** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 5:35 am

Hi Lisec

Nice pictures of your Hyuga.
I am a fan of the ships as well, I hope to be finish with mine ISE 1943 in the next week or so.

aeronautic

Pedro Brand�o · Post by **Pedro Brand�o** » Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:23 pm

Hello

Nice pictures of your Hyuga, Lisec

I'm doing.....and doing....and doing....(probably one day I will finish it) the Hyuga in the 1941 configuration

Pedro

treadhead1952 · Post by **treadhead1952** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 10:08 pm

Hi All,

Since I am currently working over Hasegawas' kit of the Ise, I am currently a fan, Murphys' Law, "one must like what one is doing", I have been tinkering with it for quite a while now, since the first of last month. I have been adding details using Toms' Modelworks PE, styrene bits and pieces and copper wire. The kit I have is an older one, I have been doing a few things with it, opened up the elevator and dropped it in the hole, added the small boat mountings to the proper locations. I have a copy of the Morskie Monograph and a few other odds and ends for reference, including some links to the pictures of completed models by some of the members here. I have changed the area forward of the AC handling deck to put it more in line with what I have seen on other models and the references I found. Here is a shot of the mostly completed center deck section.

I have been casting about for a few more Aircraft to add to the six I got with the kit, so far I have managed to put up a dozen. I am slowy but surely getting there.