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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:49 pm 
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Hi,

Although I haven't built a plastic model in a very long time, I recently picked up a model of the Imperial Russian Battleship Potemkin from Ark Models that I'm hoping to build and I was hoping to see what info others on this board may have on this ship, particularly regarding her appearance.

I've done some research on this vessel and although I don't speak Russian I have picked up a copy of the book "Броненосец Потемкин" by И. Максимихин that has a number of really useful images and drawings. I have also bought a copy of a paper model booklet of the ship from http://www.papermodeling.net as an additional reference.

In looking through these references, and others on the internet, I've noticed a couple different interpretations of the ship's paint scheme and I also have a question about the arrangement of the air vents at the base of the ship's funnels. In some drawings and pictures these air vents all appear to face forward while in others they face in different directions. As such, I was wondering if anyone knew whether these might have been rotatable on this ship (or other ships of this era)?

With respect to the color scheme, most images and pictures appear to show the ship with a black (or dark gray?) upper hull and a thin white (or light gray?) boot topping, but there seems to be a lot of difference of opinion on the color of the superstructure, funnels and upper works. Some pictures and/or paintings that I have seen have suggested that everything above the raised focsle deck (including the forward 12 inch turret) was a light color, but other images suggest that both main turrets and most of the midships deck house was black or dark gray except for a narrow band at its top. Pictures of one model of the ship that I have seen on the internet also suggest that the top of the forward turret may have been white.

Additionally, some stuff that I have seen also suggests that the conning tower and bridge may have been white or light gray, while others suggest that they may have been the same color as the upper hull, while others suggest either a pale yellow (or perhaps a buff) color.

For the funnels, I've seen a range of different shades of yellow, from pale to an almost lemon yellow color.

Anyway, I just hoping to see if anyone has any info on the ship's appearance (or any other info) that might help.

Below are some links to some of the info and images that I have found on the web, including images of models that othrs have built.

http://hobbyport.ru/ships/potemkin_mk67.htm
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/bb/ru/potemkin-400-mda/mda-index.html
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/bb/ru/potemkin-400-rw/potemkin-index.html
http://www.papermodeling.net/en/179/
http://www.gdkits.com/images/ARK-40003.jpg

Thanks

Regards

PF


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:59 pm 
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Welcome, and we look forward to your build!

Her colours change depending on the time period, as with most ships.

Here's a Russian site with pictures of the Potemkin - there are dates listed for most of the pictures; use Google Translate to make the best use out of it:
http://www.navsource.narod.ru/photos/01/022/index.html

For the vents, they were, as was the practice during the time, designed to be rotatable so as to receive the best air flow - i.e. they would turn to face the most incoming air.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:59 am 
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Location: roma, italia
can help some draw from the russian magazine modelist constructor
http://hobbyport.ru/ships/potemkin.htm
http://hobbyport.ru/ships/potemkin_mk67.htm
the colours change but in the mutiny was black hull, turret, and part of superstructures, white upper superstructure and buff the funnels and the mast like in the foto annected. in ww1 was overall grey
ciao peppe


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:42 am 
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While buff painted funnels were one of the features of "Victorian" paint scheme, this colour varied not only from nation to nation but also from one ship to another. While we don't know exactly what shades were used, this photo of a builders model of Variag might be a good guide:

Image

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:58 am 
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Hi,

Thank you all for the responses. I had seen the http://hobbyport.ru/ships/potemkin_mk67.htm before and one of the things that confused me was that the painting at that link shows the ship flying red flags, which I took to mean that this was her appearance during the mutiny, however it also shows the ship with a dark conning tower and bridge (and aft deck house) where as most other images of the ship that I have seen (such as the image here http://www.navsource.narod.ru/photos/01/022/01022007.jpg)suggest that these structures were a light color.

Additionally though I also saw this image at Wikipedia (which I'm guessing is a photo, though I guess it could also be a painting).

Image

Finally, here are a couple other links to some built models that also show a little bit a variation in appearance.

http://steelnavy.com/HellerPotemkinTR.htm
http://steelnavy.com/OgonekPotemkinGA.htm

I guess as someone mentioned above appearance may have varied over time, so I may ust have to make my best guess at some of the stuff.

Thanks you all again for your input.

Regards

PF


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:02 pm 
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Last edited by cerberusjf on Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:21 pm 
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PFJN - photo of a ship always trumps illustration or a painting or how somebody else painted their model. So, if you are after how this ship was painted during mutiny, follow the scheme from pepe's photos.

John - I think that "pale" colour of the funnels in this photo has more to do with lighting conditions and use of a flash than with what colour they really are. Look at this 2 photos: funnels are "yellowish" in a top one and pale in the bottom one. Beside, of course, the awful pink shade of the underwater part of the hull :)
It will be interesting to hear what colour it really is from somebody who has seen it with his own eyes...

Image

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:10 pm 
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Last edited by cerberusjf on Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:04 pm 
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Hi,

Looking closely at the image posted by Peppe and the model's box art, here is a real rough cartoon of what I am currently thinking for a color scheme.

Image

In general I'm thinking of a flat red lower hull, a thin white boot topping, a flat black upper hull, main turrets and midship's deck topped by a thin white band. I also plan to make the aft deck house, the conning tower, and bases of the funnels white, with the mid funnels, cranes, and lower masts buff (or pale yellow). For the upper funnels and masts, I am planning on painting them black.

Right now I am thinking of painting the Pilot House, bridge wings, and cranes buff, though I might also consider painting these in white depending if I can find more info.

Anyway, thank you all for your info.

Regards

PF


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:12 pm 
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John - my mistake, two different models indeed! But, just to muddy the waters, here is a fragment of a article about Potiemkin by Falk Pletscher:

Image

So maybe Potiemkin's funnels were white with black tops after all? In comparison to other IRN warships we really know very little about painting schemes used by Black Sea units. And, since those funnels DO look to be of the same colour as the rest of the superstucture, maybe they were?

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 6:10 pm 
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Last edited by cerberusjf on Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:16 pm 
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Ochre it was indeed. It is listed as one of the pigments used on Russian warships of the period. And about bands on Potiemkin's the funnels... What period are you talking about John? During WWI some Russian ships did carry bands on their funnels.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:04 am 
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Last edited by cerberusjf on Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:02 am 
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Whenever present those "bands" seems to be associated with "collar" above the "sleeve"... Maybe (just maybe) those "collars" were painted dark or there was some process which caused that paint on them deteriorated faster than on the rest of the funnel?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:28 pm 
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Hi,
Thanks for all the feedback. Based on the posts above, it looks like this image http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/models/ships/Panteleimon/photos/Potemkin_1905_Paintscheme.jpg might be a reasonable depiction of the ship in June-July 1905.

In looking over some of the stuff on the internet & my model though, a couple other questions have come up, regarding the shape of the conning tower and bridge. In the model the shape of the bridge is fairly, simple, as shown in this image of the Heller version of this model as shown on the Steel Navy Website. ( http://steelnavy.com/images/2004%20February/potemkinbowRW.JPG)

This is the shape that is also shown in the sketch of the ship in the book "Warships of the Imperial Russian Navy" by V.M. Tomitch. However the paper model plans and the Russian Language Model Guide I bought show a slightly more complex shape with notches for doors in the side like shown @ this link to the Paper Modeling.Net site. ( http://www.papermodeling.net/images/models/179_2_orel.jpg.jpg) Most of the images I have come across of the actual ship haven't been detailed enough for me to make out which arrangement is most correct for the ship or whether this structure may have been revised over the life of the ship.

For now I'm going to assume the version with the notches is correct for this time period, but I wanted to see if anyone here might have better info.

Also, with regards to the shape of the conning tower when looking from above in the model it kind of looks like an 'egg' shaped Oval with the aft end more rounded than the front. In the Paper Model booklet I bought it is shown as being similar, though the front end may be a little more pointed, perhaps a little more like a rounded triangle shape when viewed from above, similar to this view from the Steel Navy Website review of a 1/700 scale Combrig model of the ship ( http://steelnavy.com/images/Combrig%20Panteleimon/Pan2706ct.JPG ). [Please note that in this image the conning tower is at the top of the image and is shown upside]

However, the model guide shows this structure as consisting of two parts, with the main tower being egg shaped when viewed from above, but having an opening on its aft side. The second piece is a curved surface that sits aft of the opening similar to (but not exactly the same as) what is shown in this image from a post on the Battleship Borodino. ( http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/download/file.php?id=18964&mode=view)

(I will try to post some images or scans of what I have tried to describe above, later, if I get a chance).

Anyway, if anyone has any better input on what this structure may have actually looked like, it would also be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Regards

PF


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:46 pm 
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Last edited by cerberusjf on Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:27 pm 
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Hi,

Thank you very much. I had a chance to make some scans and noticed that I made a mistake in my previous post. What I should have said was that on the model the Conning Tower has a rounded front and a flat back face as shown as part 20 in the image below.

Image

On the paper model it is kind of a rounded triangle as shown in the image below.

Image

In the Russian Language modeling guide the conning tower looks egg shaped with the opening in the back (with a curved plate behind it) as shown below.

Image

Image

With respect to the Pilot House, the shape in the model is shown as part 22 in the 1st image above. The shape in the paper model is shown below.

Image

And finally the shape in the modeling guide is similar as shown below.

Image

I think I'll maybe try and make a new Pilot House for the model with notches like in the last two images, but I haven't decided what to do yet for the Conning Tower.

Thanks again for your help.

Regards

Pat


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PostPosted: Thu May 06, 2010 7:43 am 
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Last edited by cerberusjf on Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2010 2:31 pm 
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Hi,

Thank you very much for those images. They help alot. I'm hoping to start the model this weekend and I might begin by scratch building a new conning tower using those images as a guide.

Regards

Pat


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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:58 am 
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Last edited by cerberusjf on Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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