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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:04 am 
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you´re most welcome, atma

BR Mutsuo Sasaki


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:48 am 
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[quote="Mike C"]
Is the 1/350 ISE kit really that inaccurate?
I have a set of plans from "Detailed Drawings of the Imperial Japanese Navy" and, from what I can tell, they pretty much agree with the kit. (Mike C)

Yes, I agree, general outlines,angles and frameworks of Ise kit model are in conformity with official drawings.(Mutsuo) However, those "detailed" official drawings are the first version design drawing,
(1)details are totally missing. (2)It´s plan view drawing has more details, though.
(3) After they made the first version drawing,they made alternations here and there.
( I have an impression that IJN don´t make it a pracice to make full fredged alternations drawinngs; they just put remarks on seperate sheet of circular papers or in the form of partial drawings where alternatiolns are to be mentioned) The fleet operative officers cared for alternations annd during constuctions at the yard. They are the end users,actually. Not the constuctors.

One exception is the lower, large boat on the starboard side near the funnel is a Daihatsu type and it faces forward.
(Mike)
I don´t see any Taihatsu on the ISE model you have introuced.Truly daihatsu is drawn on thhe official Ise drawing and on Hyuga drwaing, too. I am regarding this as a personal chocie whether one puts daihoatsu aboard or not. You might omit daihatsu, if you think daihatsu does not look beautiful to the 18. Kai Senkan ISE model (Mutsuo)

I'm particularly interested in what are the major problem with the three high angle AA guns or their tubs as well as the funnel platform supports. (Mike)
I´ve already shown it in another post of min,some without images,though.(Mutsuo)

maybe it would be better to scrap the whole thing a8nd build one of these: http://www.shipbucket.com/forums/viewto ... ise+hybrid -(Mike)
It will be totally up to you, your decision as a hobby modelship builder. (Mutsuo)

BR
Mutuso S.


Last edited by Mutsuo Sasaki on Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:07 am 
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Do you consider the Miyukikai plans for ISE (1945) to be accurate?poste by Mike C.

hi, Mike,
I´m not in a postion to say lots of things about it´s accuracy. However, I can feel the Miyuki-kai is obviously burning his fingers in order to revise the plan. I suppose the company will not be able to anything before a new Gakken Hyuga/Ise book is issued. Not vice versa. Gakken has utmost priority.
This new one(Gakken), if it should come out, will be totally different from the conventionals in many points. Then Miyuii-Kai can use Gakken info as a springboard.The Miyuki-kai owner is in possesion of most of the newer info.However,authorization to use the info(which should go to Gakken first) will have to be asked for,and be granted to the Miyukikai company.I must say this rule and mora codel shouldn´t be broken.

/Mutsuo Sasaki


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:55 pm 
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Mr. Sasaki,

The Daihatsu was on the drawing that I cited.

The Miyuki-kai site states that their last revision to the ISE drawings was in 2007, so I get the impression now that almost all existing references for a hybrid ISE are basically obsolete pending the release of the new book. May I ask you to post something here when the book is released in Japan so we know where to get it before it sells out? The new publisher may not have the same outlets as Gakken did. I am familiar with the deep Japanese sense of honor and propriety.

I was only joking about scrapping the whole thing to do the other concept, but I thought the drawings were interesting.

Best regards,
Mike


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:54 pm 
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[quote="Mike C"]Mr. Sasaki,

The Daihatsu was on the drawing that I cited.


for Mike,
◎ Now i had time to look into the above drawing. I can recall back in 70íes -80íes; official drawings were not available(there was a secret story concerning this,but i spring it over). They had no other choices but to use the same one in order to draw the sistership. Hyuga´s daihatsu most apparently was borrowed from Ise´s . (When I rechecked ,there´s no daihatsu on kure official drawing of Hyuga,1943.
◎ About this 14 meter daihatsu I can see both facing-forward and the reversed are drawn on the official Kure drawing of Ise June,1944 As there is no explanation/remarks concerning this,i´m not in a position to say anything about the difference in bewteen the two methods.

The Miyuki-kai site states that their last revision to the ISE drawings was in 2007, so I get the impression now that almost all existing references for a hybrid ISE are basically obsolete pending the release of the new book.
◎ yea, you´re right about the above. He will be very anxious for getting the drawing improved,he had told this to me indirectly.

May I ask you to post something here when the book is released in Japan so we know where to get it before it sells out? The new publisher may not have the same outlets as Gakken did. I am familiar with the deep Japanese sense of honor and propriety.
Mike

◎ I definitely believe it will be announced or informed of. As a matter of fact the new publisher can be the former ijn tech adviser of the Gakken,so knowledgeable and competant in overall researches,they can be cordinating well,rest assured.
BR
Mutsuo Sasaki


Attachments:
ASIASIHyuga Ise  drawings 1944.jpg
ASIASIHyuga Ise drawings 1944.jpg [ 84.2 KiB | Viewed 1345 times ]


Last edited by Mutsuo Sasaki on Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2013 5:36 am 
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Atma wrote:
Actually Fujimi provides the steel bottom for the Catapult. The model is using a PE from another manufactures so is not Fujimi's faults. Same with the top.


I suspect this PE manufacturer must have looked at Mogami and Nagato antomy books from the Model Art,Japan, where the bottom steelplate is missing in their drawings. I may one day ask the autor of the 2D CG writer about reason of the missing,but i´m sure this is due to an error when rendering images.
Indubitably and firmly I believe the author never accepts that the catapult is without the steel plate here. He is one of formidable ijn ship model builders/reserchesr as well as a CAD CG writer. Mr. O is one of my senior sensei as seen in his early 20´ies in the photo, together with artist Kamei Shin(on the right) BR
Mutsuo Sasaki


Attachments:
Kansai Navy Model Club.jpg
Kansai Navy Model Club.jpg [ 34.55 KiB | Viewed 1265 times ]


Last edited by Mutsuo Sasaki on Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:18 am 
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[quote="Mutsuo Sasaki"][quote="Mike C"]Mr. Sasaki,

The Daihatsu was on the drawing that I cited.

for Mike,
◎ Now i had time to look into the above drawing. I can recall back in 70íes -80íes; official drawings were not available(there was a secret story concerning this,but i spring it over). They had no other choices but to use the same one in order to draw the sistership. Hyuga´s daihatsu most apparently was borrowed from Ise´s . (When I rechecked ,there´s no daihatsu on kure official drawing of Hyuga,1943.
◎ About this 14 meter daihatsu I can see both facing-forward and the reversed are drawn on the official Kure drawing of Ise June,1944 As there is no explanation/remarks concerning this,i´m not in a position to say anything about the difference in bewteen the two methods.
...........................................
hi, all,
A modeller/owner of a hobby shop in south-western part of Japan built a good model of 1944 Hyuga on 1/100. I suppose he hasn´t had access to Hyuga drawing then,so he had to reply on 1944 Ise drawings where 2 x daihatsu are clearly drawn on it.
If one bases one´s info on existing drawings pr a.d. 2013, Hyuga is not supposed to have these daihatsu aboard as of Sept-Oct.1944. However, when Hyuga was the base of Fukyryuu and Shinyo command unit,carrying and educating for the crews,most probably some type of daihatssu and Shinyo tokko boats must have been aboard for a certain training period. photo sources; check-out-the-most-amazing-war-ship-models-youll-ever-see/ site
The model by mr. TamTam,Aichi(mr.Nakamura) cheers, Mutsuo Sasaki,


Attachments:
Hyuga Tamtam.jpg
Hyuga Tamtam.jpg [ 90.01 KiB | Viewed 1154 times ]


Last edited by Mutsuo Sasaki on Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:33 am 
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I had opportunities to take some pics of 18-kai battleship Hyuga water-line model while I was staying in Tokyo May-June this year. Allegedly a young Gakken modeller working on this,is giving the last stroke.The model was supposed to be finished last year,there´s some delay. Mutsuo Sasaki


Attachments:
ASIP6021278.jpg
ASIP6021278.jpg [ 93.08 KiB | Viewed 1136 times ]


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 10:23 am 
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Thx for posting all this great information, Mucho. Fascinating. Beautiful models.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:09 am 
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Dan K wrote:
Thx for posting all this great information, Mucho. Fascinating. Beautiful models.

Thanks, Dan & hello to others,
Another image came from the young Gakken modeller.
Has finished glueing the hull together,as it was in 3 parts.The shielded deck(=motor boats deck =Tantei kouhan) is yet to be done. We can narrowly see trolleys inside the hangar deck of the model.(they are much larger than the ones on the flight deck,though)New Year´s Greetings from Scandinavia Mutsuo Sasaki
(The image as deleted ,since it was in progress)


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:34 pm 
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Opening the hangar with the elevator lowered is one of the things I want to do with the 1/350 kit that I have. I'll be looking forward to the release of the new book, unless anyone can post additional details of the elevator guide rails before the book is published.

I see a row of dark boxes along the upper edge of the elevator pit bulkheads. Are those supposed to be the counter weights for the elevator?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 8:28 am 
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Mike C wrote:
Opening the hangar with the elevator lowered is one of the things I want to do with the 1/350 kit that I have. I'll be looking forward to the release of the new book, unless anyone can post additional details of the elevator guide rails before the book is published.

I see a row of dark boxes along the upper edge of the elevator pit bulkheads. Are those supposed to be the counter weights for the elevator?

------------
for Mike C, I can safely say those couterweights are absolutely necessary. All the ijn carriers have ´em.One of Gakken IJN ship researchers made a little booklet where he tried to express how the intrior of the hangar deck would look like. In there he made a stress on showing the method of parking the Zuiun floatplanes and Suisei bombers and future type of bombers.Though,he seems to have omitted putting details on the trolleys,the hangar wall and the elevator side wall,too,since these are ot not his main themes in his booklet,understood. cheers, Mutsuo S.,
(one image as deleted for place saving)


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Ise hangardeck sample.jpg
Ise hangardeck sample.jpg [ 63.25 KiB | Viewed 980 times ]


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:18 am 
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Thank you, Mutsuo! That looks pretty simple, but I suppose you can't see much when the flight deck is in place. The elevator definitely needs guide rails and counterweights.

Those look to be all Suisei bombers. I'm sure the Zuiun floatplanes would have had their wings folded and they'd be sitting on handling trolleys, too.

Did the floatplane handling trolleys double as catapult cradles? Do you know if there was a special catapult cradle for the Suisei bombers? I can't imagine them using the same ones as for the floatplanes. I'm wondering what they had to do to load them on the catapults and I'm assuming that all the bombers had air-cooled radial engines, rather than the water-cooled inline engines used on the D4Y1/2.

Thank you again for sharing your insight.

Mike C


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2014 10:37 am 
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Great details on the hangar, Mucho!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:59 am 
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Mike C wrote:
Thank you, Mutsuo! That looks pretty simple, but I suppose you can't see much when the flight deck is in place. The elevator definitely needs guide rails and counterweights.

Those look to be all Suisei bombers. I'm sure the Zuiun floatplanes would have had their wings folded and they'd be sitting on handling trolleys, too.
Mike C


The model of Fujimi 1/350 is to illustrate how the planes are to be stored inside the hangar. It so happened the modeller had chosen Ise. As you might notice from my previous posting,3 types of aircrafts are to be stored;

Zuiun,
Suisei
Ryusei.

I can see inside on another page of the booklet,since he altered the kit model a bit so the flight deck is removable,smart.

Mutsuo S.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:44 am 
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Dan K wrote:
Great details on the hangar, Mucho!

Dan & Mike C,
Some like self-indulgences;they may even go so far as to do the unnecessary pr modelling standard if any. I think it will be quite un-interesting to see the same model ship in hundreds or in thousands from the same kit models.To make one´s model ship look different would be highly self-inspirational instead of just buying and just building kitmodels just like other modellers do :-) Mutsuo S.
p.s. As some abroad are getting confused,modelling magazine" Navy Yard" is run by a profit making company, it ´s not the same as the authoritative Navy Yard Assoc. I think the name was sort of hijacked lol attached is from Navy Yard Assoc. journal # 39


Attachments:
ASIP1042354 MScom.jpg
ASIP1042354 MScom.jpg [ 77.21 KiB | Viewed 908 times ]


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:30 am 
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Mutsuo Sasaki wrote:
Mike C wrote:
Thank you, Mutsuo! That looks pretty simple, but I suppose you can't see much when the flight deck is in place. The elevator definitely needs guide rails and counterweights. Those look to be all Suisei bombers. I'm sure the Zuiun floatplanes would have had their wings folded and they'd be sitting on handling trolleys, too.
Mike C


The model of Fujimi 1/350 in his booklet is to illustrate how the planes are to be stored inside the hangar. It so happened the modeller had chosen Ise. As you might notice from my previous posting,3 types of aircrafts are to be stored;
Zuiun,
Suisei
Ryusei.

I can see inside on another page of the booklet,since he altered the kit model a bit so the flight deck is removable,smart. Mutsuo S.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:52 pm 
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Wow! That really helps a lot. Thank you again, Mutsuo!

I found these on YouTube:

Hyuga: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95jUwSZUSrg

Ise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbY4LJS948Y

You can get an idea of the concrete material used on the flight deck toward the end of the first one. They might also be helpful in determining the proper elevation of the aft rocket platforms.

Mike C


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:46 am 
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yes,thanks,Mike, I already know of them. I think these videos are in VHS resolution. DVD version can be way better and clearer,has more colors and lines than VHS version. I used to have both,but it went to Hans L.for one of his books,"Japanese Hybrid Warships". In retrospect that´s the only thing i could help him out,but,not other materials.
I dont know why japanese version like on Youtube is lacking 6 minutes.
No worry.
I should think all necessary and ample pre-research jobs and corrections have already been done,that´s why it took 10-12 years to research into it and to find more materials;
The Hyuga job is successfully over, and i´m after one of Aoba class cruisers in hot persuit of better, more faithful reconstruction not found on conventional studies or in town models.

Only things which are missing on the model are 12-13 Suisei after September 25,1944 until the Taiwan air battle (Oct 13-15th)where all the planes were snatched away by the dull,half-hearted RK Adm.Toyoda Soemu,over which decision vice admiral Ozawa got furious.I can imagine #4FS Chokan rear adm.Matsui Chiaki shook his head,too. And some smaller parts,too. Mutsuo,


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ASI20080924-220140.jpg
ASI20080924-220140.jpg [ 39.49 KiB | Viewed 843 times ]
ASIASIASI20090301-122015.jpg
ASIASIASI20090301-122015.jpg [ 40.31 KiB | Viewed 841 times ]


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 2:59 am 
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for those who are interested;
As I must have posted in some other places or in here in the past,the camou color on Hyuga/Ise is in mustard yellow; White color is incorrect.TONE Senji Nisshi diary 1945 descrives delivering of yellow color paint to other ships at Kure Harbour.

/Mutsuo S.


Last edited by Mutsuo Sasaki on Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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