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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:41 am 
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Has anyone completed or done any work on the Samek 1/700 Ise 1917 kit or seen any reviews of this kit?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:37 pm 
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Me ! My only problem was the turrets, they are over scaled. I replaced mine with a old Haseqawa one, but a slight modification will be needed cause they for a '40's fit.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:34 am 
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I stumbled an image shared in facebook of IJN Ise wreck in green camouflage

Image

Also after quick search i found this



Interested to convert my ongoing Hyuga build into this camouflage. Is there any other reference on this camo pattern? Does Hyuga got similar camo treatment?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:06 am 
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Yes, IJN Hyuga had same camouflage pattern, IJN Haruna too but with stripes instead of patches like the IJN Ise class. IJN Nagato had a camouflage patern too, but quite different.


Last edited by Atma on Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:34 pm 
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Interesting, any reference on how the camo pattern painted on their hull?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:32 am 
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Nopefield wrote:
Interesting, any reference on how the camo pattern painted on their hull?

Here is a GREEN IJN Ise in 1/200 fom the gallery:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/bb/ijn/ISE-200-gs/index.htm
Im guessing IJN Hyuga was almost the same just the patches in a slightly different place and shape (?) but not much. The most bizarre camo was IJN Haruna's and is also hard to do correctly in 1/700 too(good luck painting camo on 12,7 cm AA barrels...) !
https://ibb.co/du16uK


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Nice, thanks! Need some guesstimate for the Hyuga then.

What if scenario, if Japan has no shortage of experienced pilots, planes, and oil; but still in short of carrier due to Midway; does Ise/Hyuga conversion could be successful? Or useful at least?

Also interesting choice for using dazzle lines for the turret on Haruna. Maybe to make the turret looks like patrol boats? Or it is common in japan to use dazzle lines for coastal gun?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:50 am 
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Hard to assume, but Yokosuka D4Y Suisei dive bombers was quite successful as dive bombers. Successful = they worked as long fuel and pilots where there, perfect/as they intend too.
Also something that we know for a fact, is that the IJN Ise class AA suit of post 1943 was highly successful and a prototype for battleships AA defense according to "interviews"/inquiries of Imperial Navy staff with IJN Ise and IJN Hyuga captains after the Battle of the Philippine Sea, well all this according to this book by Stanley Sandler :
Battleships: An Illustrated History of their Impact. Weapons and Warfare(2004).


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PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 11:30 pm 
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Hello, all. I have some questions regarding the dolly and catapult cradle arrangement for the ISE. As far as I can tell, the ISE had catapults installed so that the top of the catapult, I'll call it the catapult track, was at the same level as the flight deck rail system. In IJN ships such as cruisers or conventional battleships, the catapult track was elevated above the deck rail system by virtue of the entire catapult structure being mounted to the deck. In these other ships, it seems that the dolly used to move the aircraft on the rails held the transferable cradle at the same height as the catapult track. I believe that in that configuration, the cradle in which the aircraft rested could then have been directly slid from the top of the dolly onto the rear end of the catapult track. With the configuration of the catapult track and flight deck rail system being at the same level on the ISE, I'm inclined to believe that the sort of raised dollies used on other ships would have been irrelevant. So, were ISE's dollies and cradles in fact a single integrated unit, rather than two separable units? Or was perhaps a very low profile separable dolly used with the cradles? I see that in the Fujimi ISE PE set for 1/700, only what looks like the over-sized ISE cradles are included, whereas in the 1/350 Fujimi PE set, it looks like both the ISE-type cradles and separate elevated dollies are included. Would the inclusion of the dollies in the 1/350 PE set be an error on Fujimi's part? Flyhawk's 1/350 ISE PE set, FH350128, appears to provide both the dollies and the cradles that were typical for other ships, but then also the ISE-specific cradles. Huh? On another note, the plan was for ISE to carry both float planes and wheeled dive bombers. Of course, the wheeled aircraft could be moved around, from hanger to flight deck, without the use of dollies. This is how many people have modeled the wheeled aircraft on ISE's flight deck, with the seeming implication being that the transfer of the wheeled aircraft from flight deck to catapult cradle might have occurred just before the rear end of the catapult (How about that picture of what appears to be a wheeled aircraft on ISE's flight deck with tail lifted, perhaps being loaded onto a catapult cradle just as the picture was taken?) So it seems that the extensive track system going from the hanger to flight deck to catapults would have been needed primarily for handling the float planes, not so much for the wheeled planes? Hmm. What do you all think? Separate dollies and catapult cradles or integrated units? Both wheeled aircraft and float planes riding on dollies all the way from the hanger, or just float planes? (With my questions, please realize that I don't have access to the best reference material, as do other modelers, so forgive me if my questions seem naïve.)


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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 12:00 pm 
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Yours is an excellent observation, one that does not seemed addressed in the available reference material. I can only surmise that the elimination of the aircraft dolly expedited movement of the aircraft around and onto the catapult. Less cumbersome handling, I suppose.

Still, whether wheeled or not, any given aircraft still has to be placed on the cradle at some point, probably early on, as there is no crane placed near the catapult. My guess is they were all to be loaded onto cradles when brought aboard ship.

I can't speak to the Fujimi presentation aside from thinking they've made assumptions that aren't actually so in this particular case.


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 1:12 am 
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Atma wrote:
Here is a GREEN IJN Ise in 1/200 fom the gallery:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/bb/ijn/ISE-200-gs/index.htm
Awesome model, save for a minor quibble: a couple of the flags are incorrect, as the model is sporting the flag of both a full Admiral and an IJN Division Commander. Ise had neither of those aboard in 1945.

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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 2:18 am 
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Thanks for your reply, Dan K. The idea of the planes being on cradles/dollies from the time they were first put on the ship makes sense. It might be that the two types of planes each used a unique cradle/dolly combination. I read someplace, maybe in this thread, that the D4Y had to be structurally modified to be catapult launched, so it wouldn't be surprising if it had it's own unique cradle system.


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PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 3:16 pm 
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Atma wrote:
Nopefield wrote:
Interesting, any reference on how the camo pattern painted on their hull?

Here is a GREEN IJN Ise in 1/200 fom the gallery:
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/bb/ijn/ISE-200-gs/index.htm
Im guessing IJN Hyuga was almost the same just the patches in a slightly different place and shape (?) but not much. The most bizarre camo was IJN Haruna's and is also hard to do correctly in 1/700 too(good luck painting camo on 12,7 cm AA barrels...) !
https://ibb.co/du16uK



The model looks to be a very faithful reproduction of images from Hans Lengerer's 'Japanese Hybrid Warships'. Colours and disposition look spot-on. The images are 3-D models, but the book also has several stills of the wreck in colour, that appear to match. The same book also has 3-D colour models of Hyuga - her scheme is different, with dark green applied over her grey in a disruptive pattern, but no sand/brown

Hope this helps!


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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 4:05 pm 
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famman47 wrote:
Thanks for your reply, Dan K. The idea of the planes being on cradles/dollies from the time they were first put on the ship makes sense. It might be that the two types of planes each used a unique cradle/dolly combination. I read someplace, maybe in this thread, that the D4Y had to be structurally modified to be catapult launched, so it wouldn't be surprising if it had it's own unique cradle system.


Truly the Kure arsenal aviation unit developed a special cradle to Suisei bombers and an integrated cradle/trolley to Zuiun bombers. Later in the period Hyuga carried Suiseis only,Ise Zuiuns only according to maintenance log of nr.634-Ku. In the beginning both ships trained with mixture of two planes.
cheers,


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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 7:34 pm 
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Thank you for that bit of information, Mucho. That is new to us.


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:56 am 
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That's very interesting information coming from the maintenance log. It would be fantastic if technical drawings for the cradles or dollies still exist. I imagine that the large cradles in the 1/350 Fujimi Ise PE set (and the 1/700 set) could be based on some sort of technical drawings or photos. In the instruction pictures for the 1/700 Fujimi PE set, which I'm currently working with, a Suisei is shown seated in one of the PE cradles at the back of one of the catapults, and the other catapult has an empty cradle at its back end. No Suisei is shown on the flight deck, just two Zuiun. It would be interesting to seen what Fujimi has depicted in its 1/350 Ise PE instructions. In my previous post, I erroneously stated that the Flyhawk PE set has the larger, apparently Ise-specific cradles, as well as cradles and dollies that look more like those used on cruisers and battleships, but it's actually just the 1/350 Fujimi set that has the larger cradles. The Flyhawk set does have what look like two different types of cradles, as well as one type of dolly, but both types of cradles in the Flyhawk set are small relative to the larger of the two cradle types in the Fujimi set. I've attached pictures that I found online of both the Fujimi and the Flyhawk 1/350 PE frets with the parts that I'm looking at outlined in red.


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Fujimi 1-350 Ise PE.jpg
Fujimi 1-350 Ise PE.jpg [ 289.07 KiB | Viewed 1789 times ]
Flyhawk 1-350 Ise PE.jpg
Flyhawk 1-350 Ise PE.jpg [ 293.76 KiB | Viewed 1789 times ]
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 9:15 am 
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"That's very interesting information coming from the maintenance log. It would be fantastic if technical drawings for the cradles or dollies still exist. I imagine that the large cradles in the 1/350 Fujimi Ise PE set (and the 1/700 set) could be based on some sort of technical drawings or photos. "

hi, mate. I don´t have the log myself, for, I got this piece of info from son of IJN chief medical doctor,mr Kiuti in 2003.
These are the shapes of Suiseis cradle and Zuin´s combined cradle/trolley which I figured out from a much vague drawing of Hyuga and from a visual material of Ise. As one can note with ease, Zuiun´s integrated one is higher than that of Suisei in order for it´s floats to secure safe height from the deck surface. I think i keep offical measurements of these somewhere in my file,but,everything about their info is untidy and in a mess, coz I stopped build of this class BBs 9 years ago, am occupied with other things in my life in stead---
cheers,

ps. Plse note the front bars are to fall forward after Suisei is released for launching.


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ASIP1020426u.jpg
ASIP1020426u.jpg [ 79.84 KiB | Viewed 1758 times ]
ASIDSCN3738.jpg
ASIDSCN3738.jpg [ 57.42 KiB | Viewed 1758 times ]


Last edited by Mutsuo Sasaki on Mon May 13, 2019 11:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 9:19 am 
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one more pic , Suisei´s cradles are on the feed-back rails after performing series of launching.---

cheers,


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ASIASIDSCN3727.jpg
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 11:14 am 
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Dan K wrote:
Thank you for that bit of information, Mucho. That is new to us.


You´re welcome,Dan,my friend.
Congrats for your having been promoted to a moderator. :D

cheers,


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 12:09 pm 
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Thank you very much for those fantastic photos, Mr Sasaki! I have a much better idea now of how to depict those parts on my model, perhaps doing a bit of modification of the 1/700 Fujimi PE cradles.


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