The Ship Model Forum

I need pictures of the Nevada and Oklahoma ( 1930's) in a bad way. I have around 100 pictures at the moment but would like to have more.

Any thing will help so post any pictures if you find any. Chances are I might already have the picture but someone is bound to have one I have yet to find.

Right now I'm hurting for close up details of the armor plating. The hull is almost faired in and wanting thin aluminum plating soon.

Another detail I'm sketchy on right now is the catapult for "Q" turret. My pictures from circa '41 show a "rail" like system but they might be the older "ramp" style.............please let me know wich one I should go with. Its not going to be a museum model but I would like to get it as close as possible with my limited modeling ability.

Sorry for my misspelling.

nevada http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/36a.htm
oklahoma http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/37a.htm

Available Nevada-class kits:
1/700
Tom's Modelworks Nevada - 1941 fit
Tom's Modelworks Oklahoma - 1941 fit
Tom's Modelworks Nevada - 1944 fit

1/350
ISW Nevada - 1941 fit
ISW Oklahoma - 1941 fit
ISW Nevada - 1944 fit

Links to Nevada-class builds in the galleries:
1/700:
Christoph Mentzel's 1/700 HP Nevada
Gary Johnshon's 1/700 scratchbuilt Nevada
Bob Cicconi's 1/700 HP Nevada

1/350:
Jeff Sharp's 1/350 ISW Nevada
Dave Becker's 1/350 ISW Oklahoma
Pierre Marchal's 1/350 Scratchbuilt Nevada

Various Scales:
John Bange's 1/500 scratchbuilt Nevada
Paul Helfrich's 1/2400 Oklahoma

Over on Steel Navy, there is also Greg Shoda's (1/550?) scratchbuilt Nevada and Bill Everett's 1/192 scratchbuilt Nevada

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

Google has started posting hosted images from Life Magazine's archives online; here are a couple *COLOR* shots that should be of interest to Oklahoma/Nevada fans.

Anchored off of Lahaina, Maui (AKA Lahaina Roads) September, 1940.
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l? ... f%26sa%3DN

Here's one of a cruiser that should give modelers some ideas as to holystoned teak's appearance:
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l? ... 6bfe67839e

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

It is Nevada.

More from LIFE - overhead shot taken by the Japanese during the attack on Battleship Row. Oklahoma is the top left ship in line, Nevada is at the bottom of the page.

Historian Mike Wegner had this to say over at Steel Navy about this photo:

Other have mentioned that this is probably the last photo taken of Oklahoma before she capsized - you can see in the picture that she is starting to roll (as is West Virginia). Notice the float plane askew on the deck by the aft turret.

Here's a crop of Okie & Maryland:


According to the chart that Tracy White put together on his website, Okie should have Insignia Red on her two forward turrets, and True Blue on her #4 turret. Hard to tell from this picture.

Nevada should have similar coloring on the forward turrets, but white on the top of turret 4. Again, the Nevada is obscured, but it does seem like the top of turret 4 is much lighter than the other turret tops (you can see the outline of the turret 3 gun barrels over the turret). Here's a crop of Nevada:

All these pictures make me want to get cracking on some of the PH battlewagons I have in the stash, espeically Okie, which seems to be the forgotten battleship of the Pearl Harbor attack.

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

My uncle, Alwin B. Chen, was trained as a naval architect during WW2 and then served for the duration at one of the East coast naval shipyards. I can't remember now if it was New York or Philadelphia. Anyway, after he died about 20 years ago his papers went to my father for safekeeping. My Dad passed away this September, and whilst helping my Mom go through his things I found Uncle Al's stuff. Among them is an original print of the paper by Capt. F.H. Whitaker on The Salvage of USS "Oklahoma" at Pearl Harbor. This was to be presented at the 1944 annual meeting of The Society of Naval Architects and Marine Engineers, which my uncle must have attended. It's actually quite a fascinating account of an incredibly complex operation: emptying the oil bunkers, righting the ship, refloating it and getting her into drydock. The report is not printed on magazine stock so the photo reproduction quality is not the best, but there are a number of overhead photos of the ship after righting that may be useful to a modeler. The righting operation itself would make an impressive though daunting diorama.

I am not a ship modeler, so I have no reason to hang onto this document. But I want it to find a home where it will be appreciated and useful. If any of you is interested, I'd be happy to mail it to you at no charge. Please contact me by e-mail as I am not a frequenter of this forum: mkchen@comcast.net

Happy Holidays and Happy New Year!

Ming Chen

Sorry to hear about the loss of your father.

Mail out!

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Anyone know if the Oklahoma had yararms like Nevada and Arizona on the foremast? TIA, Jon

Thanks David,
Did she also have the external deguassing cable on Dec 7 ?

Hi all, after almost three years I've finally finished my USS Olkahoma drawing, here it is:

USS Oklahoma Early 1941

Would she have had the turret top colors at this time?

_________________
-Abram
ModelWarships Gallery Page
Joslin Models Facebook Page

Yes, from the early 1930s on most battleships did, with experiments and other systems predating that.

Paint according this this document:
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Misc/O ... tml#BatFor
So that would make her Red Red White

For what it's worth I have a photo showing part of battleship row on June 4 and 3 of the 4 cage mast BBs are in measure one, the other is still prewar gray. So I'm pegging the re-painting as taking place in May/June.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thanks Tracy I'll fix my drawing. What would her colors have been on Dec 7th? (Overall and turret tops)

_________________
-Abram
ModelWarships Gallery Page
Joslin Models Facebook Page

Red Red White for Nevada, yes. But Oklahoma would be White White White. (Or just White on #2 and White on #4, prior to the extension of the painting to both forward turrets. That was the gist of that late March, 1941 order, right? Extending it to both forward turrets?) And then after changing squadrons with Pennsylvania in late May, 1941 (and all the way through Dec. 7), Oklahoma would be Red Red Blue.

- Sean F.

Yes... that's what I get for trying to do too much at once.

I saw "Nevada class" on the notification and didn't think to read the caption on the drawing Abram has and was thinking Nevada.

Both of them would be Measure 1 with a Measure 5 false bow wave. Not sure about the decks (I.E. painted or natural); I seem to have misplaced my notes for that, but I'm fairly certain from memory that Oklahoma was left natural wood.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

How does this look guys?

USS Oklahoma Ms-1/Ms-5 1941

The darkness of 5-D makes it really hard to see any details.

I'm working on the Nevada right now, it won't be too hard as I can use my Oklahoma drawing. I've found the differences on the Tripod platforms, are there any other major differences between the Oklahoma and Nevada I should know about? Thanks

_________________
-Abram
ModelWarships Gallery Page
Joslin Models Facebook Page

Just from looking at the attack/post-attack photos, I see a few things. Nevada had: 1. No external degausing cable 2. Trusswork yardarms on the foretop, like Arizona and Pennsylvania 3. A heavier structural member at the top of the boat cranes, not the cables shown on Oklahoma 4. Some kind of covering (a pipe or something) over much of the length of the cables on the stern crane. 5. A square-aligned birdbath gun platform on the maintop, not diamond-aligned as on Arizona, Pennsylvania, and Oklahoma (don't know if you already caught that one) Most of this can be seen in this shot: http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013629.jpg
From the photos I've seen, I can't tell whether Nevada had the four 3" AA guns like Oklahoma and Pennsylvania or empty tubs like Arizona. Also, it appears that the blast bags on the lower turrets were dark and the upper ones were light in color. Comparing the stern and bow shots of the crippled Nevada, since the stern ones look the same as the bow ones, I suspect it's not just scorching from the fires forward.

- Sean F.

Thanks Sean, I'll incorporate that into my drawing.

_________________
-Abram
ModelWarships Gallery Page
Joslin Models Facebook Page

A couple other items that occurred to me:

That pipe on the stern crane's cables looks to be a removable thing that isn't visible in all earlier photos of Nevada. However, it is present in all the attack and aftermath shots.

Based on the uniformity of color between the planking and the metal fittings and plates in the attack aftermath photos, this being a prime example:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013632.jpg
I'd say the Nevada's wood deck was painted. What color, I have no idea. A medium blue or blue-gray perhaps.

Regarding the 5-D on Oklahoma, something I've been wondering: Wasn't it a collision with the Oklahoma that sent Arizona into the drydock for the visit that provided the possibility for her to be repainted in 5-S? If so, wouldn't the Oklahoma also need a drydock visit, affording the same repaint opportunity? Yet no one seems to dispute the Oklahoma's 5-D. (Granted, people often ignore the Oklahoma anyway. And maybe she was't banged up enough to need the drydock. Just something I've been puzzled over. If Oklahoma *did* go to drydock, and she wasn't repainted in 5-S, maybe Arizona wasn't either. Ah, the vaguaries of the final months of 1941 at the Pearl Harbor naval base - which matter not a whit to any but us ship geeks. )

In regard to the bow wave: We know Nevada had it. I haven't seen any shots of Oklahoma above water from the correct time period to prove or disprove it, and just because one sister had something doesn't gurantee the other did - see all the differences we've been discussing! But if she did have it, might Arizona, as the final member of the battle division all three ships were in, have also had a bow wave? (None of the ships in other BatDivs had them that I've noticed) All the photos I see of Arizona at the right time period are either distant, grainy Japanese photos, or shots where her bow is already submerged. If two members of a group look like they're speeding along, and the third looks like it's sitting still, it's not going to take long to realize that they're not actually changing position relative to each other. But it also allows for that moment of misjudgement. (I'm probably overthinking this - but the "why on this ship and not on the other" question makes me do that.)

Having recently noticed this on the Arizona and Pennsylvania build a club mate and I are working on, a check of photos revelas that there are also external avgas lines on Nevada both sisters. One side only on each, extending low on the bow to deck near the stern, and not following identical bend patterns.
Oklahoma had hers on the starboard side. See:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013718.jpg
And in this shot she has both the avgas line and the degaussing cable:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013701.jpg
(Could add this to the artwork)

Nevada had hers on the port:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013698.jpg
I can't see it in the photos after she was raised, but then her port side is so cruddy it's hard to see any detail.

- Sean F.

Regarding Oklahoma MS-1/MS-5.....She had the false bow wave (MS-5) as late as 03 Nov 1941. There is a photo of Nevada and Oklahoma moored together at PH in "The Way It Was Pearl Harbor, The Original Photographs", pg. 14. They are both in MS-1/MS-5.

Jerry Phillips