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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:03 pm 
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Oklahoma's Booklet of General Plans agrees.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:08 pm 
Thanks guys! Now did Nevada have them?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:08 pm 
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Brian K. wrote:
Thanks guys! Now did Nevada have them?

Some good post PH photos of Nevada here.

Here is a photo from the NARA II branch of the National archives of Nevada post attach. Looks like there is a gun tub there, same as Okie.
Attachment:
BB36_80G32745.jpg
BB36_80G32745.jpg [ 152.43 KiB | Viewed 7321 times ]

And a crop...
Attachment:
80G32745crop.jpg
80G32745crop.jpg [ 20.76 KiB | Viewed 7321 times ]

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:08 pm 
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Brian, keep in mind the tubs were the King Board modifications in process when the attack on PH occurred. The tubs were for the 1.1"s but 3"/50 were installed on various ships until more 1.1's were available. Both ships of the Nevada Class had the tubs; the Oklahoma had 3'/50's on 12/7/41 and I believe Nevada had 1.1's. Photos are difficult to see on the Nevada unless you can discover some shots from above of her salvage(hence the fun in modeling ships). The photo provided earlier MIGHT suggest 1.1's in the tubs.


Attachments:
USS_Oklahoma_(BB37)_19_March_1943,_1561-43,_Salvage,_Close_view_from_forward_with_ship_in_about_68_degrees_position_-_NARA_-_296973.jpg
USS_Oklahoma_(BB37)_19_March_1943,_1561-43,_Salvage,_Close_view_from_forward_with_ship_in_about_68_degrees_position_-_NARA_-_296973.jpg [ 193.69 KiB | Viewed 7240 times ]
File comment: Both this and the previous photos show 3"/50's on the Oklahoma.
013731OK.jpg
013731OK.jpg [ 129.55 KiB | Viewed 7240 times ]
File comment: The is a PH era photo of the Nevada with a close-up crop of the 4 barrels of 1.1's
nev013629.jpg
nev013629.jpg [ 121.68 KiB | Viewed 7240 times ]
nev013629 - Copy.jpg
nev013629 - Copy.jpg [ 67.92 KiB | Viewed 7240 times ]

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:11 pm 
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Wikipedia says the Nevada received 8 (4X2) 1.1's which seem 8 short.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:13 pm 
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In case it's of any help, I posted Nevada's Pearl Harbor Damage Report a bit ago. Photo reproduction quality wasn't all that good. I tried looking for better copies in the War Damage Reports group at NARA but there was nothing for this report there. :huh:

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:17 pm 
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Tubs circled on Oklahoma


Attachments:
013731OK.jpg
013731OK.jpg [ 196.25 KiB | Viewed 7239 times ]

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:38 pm 
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(Nevada) The tubs are there, but I don't find any compelling info showing what, if anything was in the tubs. I would leave them open/empty and add later if needed...

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:37 pm 
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Like Arizona, Nevada had four empty tubs. This is the Starboard aft tub.
Image

Here is a view of the starboard forward tub.
Image

There is also one excellent overhead photo of Nevada post attack that shows all four tubs empty. The forward port-side tub had an ammo locker in it, but the rest did not. Unfortunately, I am not at liberty to share this photo at this time but it will be available soon for all to see.


Last edited by Jeff Sharp on Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:24 am 
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Here is a photo that I came across at NARA II that may be helpful. The photo, dated 12 December 1941, was taken from the bow looking aft showing the damage to USS NEVADA's forward deck and her bridge area. Note that her portside "Quad 1.1-in mount Tub" appears to be empty. See cropped view.

Image

Image

Here is another image that may be helpful. It is a cropped view from an overhead aerial photo of Pearl Harbor dated 28 March 1942 (80-G-45046) shows USS NEVADA being repaired. The aft tubs can't be made out, but the forward portside tub doesn't show either 3-in or quad 1.1-in gun mounts in place. A March 1942 photo isn't as much proof, given that if she DID HAVE quad 1.1-in mounts, they would have been removed for use elsewhere.

Image


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:43 pm 
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Jeff Sharp wrote:
Like Arizona, Nevada had four empty tubs. This is the Starboard aft tub.
Image

Here is a view of the starboard forward tub.
Image

There is also one excellent overhead photo of Nevada post attack that shows all four tubs empty. The forward port-side tub had an ammo locker in it, but the rest did not. Unfortunately, I am not at liberty to share this photo at this time but it will be available soon for all to see.


These photos are sweet! Thanks Jeff!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:46 pm 
Thanks to all, I could never make out in the photo's I have if these 2 had the AA changes performed. Now I know!!!! Thanks again


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:42 pm 
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Something else worth noting. Notice what appears to be the start of a director platform just aft of the tub.
Image


Last edited by Jeff Sharp on Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:08 am 
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Anyone have any good pictures of Nevada and Oklahoma air defense stations installed at the base of the forward tripod mast?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:59 pm 
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Regarding the Mk. 49 director platform on NEVADA, I wonder if the platform would be similar to that mounted on ARIZONA? Shapeways/Model Monkey has a set for ARIZONA that might be adapted to NEVADA. It is apparent that NEVADA did not have her 1.1" mounts and Mk. 49 directors on December 7.

Also, where were the platforms located for the aft 1.1" mounts? If they had been fitted, it would seem that they would have been located on the structure immediately below the main mast.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 6:55 pm 
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I have a few questions about construction techniques for Nevada.
The first subject of interest is the torpedo blisters,...

Were the torpedo blisters a "framed up skin" laid over the plating and armor?
Were the blisters left void?
Were they originally welded or riveted construction?
Did the blisters have any openings to sea water for inlet, outlet or weapons purpose?


Mick


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:48 pm 
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The blisters were not armor, there were just an extra void designed to both increase buoyancy and stability as well as provide some extra protection. The main purpose was to return the ships to their design waterline, as increasing weight had pushed them lower into the water and in some cases put the thick armor belt too low to protect against torpedo strikes. As an aside, the Navy learned at Pearl Harbor that having the outside voids filled with air lead to a much larger list when one side was hit and moved fuel oil to the outside to decrease the effect of this (not sure that blisters were turned into fuel tanks and suspect not).

The men in this photo are standing on Oklahoma's blister and shows a combination of riveted and welded construction. As you can see, there is some sort of opening present. Sheet 5's "Inner Bottom" of Oklahoma's Booklet of General Plans should be of a little help as it does lay out openings in the ship's shell. However, I'm not sure if "Outboard delivery" is the opening we're seeing. They don't show in the Outboard profile, but they may be hidden by the bilge keel or considered unimportant for that view.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:03 am 
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Tracy White wrote:
As an aside, the Navy learned at Pearl Harbor that having the outside voids filled with air lead to a much larger list when one side was hit...


Is that why Oklahoma capsized so quickly and West Virginia and California didn't?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:56 am 
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ArizonaBB39 wrote:
Tracy White wrote:
As an aside, the Navy learned at Pearl Harbor that having the outside voids filled with air lead to a much larger list when one side was hit...


Is that why Oklahoma capsized so quickly and West Virginia and California didn't?


I want to say the reason why Oklahoma went over so fast is due to the very rapid timing of the torpedo strikes, 5 torpedoes within 10 minutes of which 3 were within the first 3 minutes or so. WeeVee was able to counter-flood since the torpedoes were a bit more spaced out. California only took 2 torpedoes but her water tight integrity was severely compromised due to impending inspection.

Nevada took one torpedo forward but surprisingly the torpedo bulkhead held, but did leak.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:59 am 
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There is a book out on the Oklahoma at Pearl Harbor, written by a survivor. I'm going off my (acknowledged faulty) memory, but I recall teams racing to counterflood, only to find that they were locked out of either the compartment they needed to get into or the control panel. If I remember and have time, I'll try and find the passage and the name of the book.

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