The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:20 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 260 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 9, 10, 11, 12, 13
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:15 pm
Posts: 569
Wow Rick! This is pretty definitive stuff! This now poses another question. Now I wonder if all the other MS-11 cruisers, Phoenix, St Louis, Honolulu still had unpainted decks. This suggest that they weren't painted.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 3201
There were other documents "directing" to paint the decks, but whether it was done before the attack is unknown.

There were quite a few destroyers still painted in Ms 11 w/5-S and other experimental schemes in late November.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 3201
Here are a couple of images provided by Ernie Arroyo that he scanned at NARA, showing USS OKLAHOMA (left) and USS NEVADA (right) at Pearl Harbor on 3 November 1941. The first image shows the overall view and the second image shows a cropped view of the two battleships. I believe that this is the same photos referenced earlier as being in "The Way It Was Pearl Harbor, The Original Photographs", pg. 14. They are both in MS-1/MS-5. I don't have the book, so I'm not sure, but the date is the same.

Note that the Ms 5 False Bow Waves have slightly different shapes. By November 1941 only USS OKLAHOMA and USS NEVADA of the Pacific Fleet battleships still retained the Ms 5 camo. The other two battleships documented as having been painted with Ms 5, USS COLORADO and USS NEW MEXICO (maybe USS MISSISSIPPI as well?), had either transferred to the Atlantic Fleet (NEW MEXICO class units) and repainted to Ms 2/12 or had gone to PSNY for overhaul (COLORADO) in June 1941.

Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:20 pm
Posts: 11
Does anyone have a good shot of the Air defense station under the main tripod mast legs?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:20 pm
Posts: 11
I found what I needed, incase somebody else is looking check Norman Friedman's U.S. Battleships pages 184 and 185.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:38 pm
Posts: 42
Quick question-
Are the barbetts of turrets 1 & 4 larger diameter or did they use the same basic barbett for turrets 2 & 3?

I need to know for my 1945 Oklahoma (bombarding Okinawa). I’m wondering if it would have been feasible to put Arizona’s #3 & 4 in place.....

_________________
-Dave C


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:28 pm
Posts: 573
Location: Downey, California
SigfanUSAF wrote:
Quick question-
Are the barbetts of turrets 1 & 4 larger diameter or did they use the same basic barbett for turrets 2 & 3?

I need to know for my 1945 Oklahoma (bombarding Okinawa). I’m wondering if it would have been feasible to put Arizona’s #3 & 4 in place.....


Yes, 1 & 4 are larger.

- Sean F.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:38 pm
Posts: 42
Thank you Sean

_________________
-Dave C


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:12 pm
Posts: 1983
SigfanUSAF, barbetts 2 & 3 are 30' 2" OD compared to barbetts 1 & 4 that are 32' 2" OD. turrets 2 & 3 are narrower & shorter in length compared to turrets 1 & 4. what scale is your Oklahoma as I'm kitbashing Revell's 1/429 scale Arizona into the 1941 version Oklahoma & 1945 Nevada?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:38 pm
Posts: 42
DavidP wrote:
SigfanUSAF, barbetts 2 & 3 are 30' 2" OD compared to barbetts 1 & 4 that are 32' 2" OD. turrets 2 & 3 are narrower & shorter in length compared to turrets 1 & 4. what scale is your Oklahoma as I'm kitbashing Revell's 1/429 scale Arizona into the 1941 version Oklahoma & 1945 Nevada?


Hobby Boss 1/350. I’m actually doing the OK and the NV in ‘45.

_________________
-Dave C


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:12 pm
Posts: 1983
so your Oklahoma is going to be a what-if being the ship was not raised from the harbor bottom til Dec 1943. is it going to be similar as the 45 Nevada or what? are you shortening the hull to the right length, redoing the gun casements & notching the stern?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:28 pm
Posts: 573
Location: Downey, California
The shape of the bow is different as well.

I tweaked-out a Dragon 1:700 Arizona hull into a Nevada-class hull a few years back. It took a lot of effort. They look so similar at first glance, but they really are quite different. Comparable to... say, a P-39 Airacobra and a P-63 King Cobra.

- Sean F.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:12 pm
Posts: 1983
the rework of the bow was not that hard compared to doing the forward & aft in hull gun casements. the hard part I find using the Revell Arizona is correcting the concave shape of the hull stern which I've worked out for the Nevada, Idaho & currently doing on the Oklahoma.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:28 pm
Posts: 573
Location: Downey, California
Sorry for being unclear; by "bow shape" I meant it in a broader sense including the forward casemates since they're all interrelated. (i.e. where and how the deck notches occur, how the hull curves intersect the casemate facets, etc.)

Hull stern concavity... is that something that should be visible above the waterline, or only below?

- Sean F.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:12 pm
Posts: 1983
below the waterline but the Revell Arizona it is extremely concave.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 3201
While at NARA I came across a view of USS NEVADA in the background of another ship's photo at PHNY on 19 March 1942. NEVADA was being repaired post-attack. The overhead view I posted earlier of NEVADA in the PHNY, showed her moored to the other side of the pier seen in this photo,

Not much new here, with parts of the ship blocked or out of the frame, but does give a different aspect view of the aft area. The empty aft quad 1,1-in "tub" can be made out. When paired with the overhead views available, it does help to understand this area.

Image

The view of NEVADA dated as taken on 28 March 1942, nine days after the above photo.

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:28 pm
Posts: 573
Location: Downey, California
Nice find!

Regarding the overhead shot:
Setting aside whatever is happening on turret #2 (which looks like a big, white circle, ala cruiser-style markings... but considering all the fire damage who knows what that really is...) does it look to anyone else like turret 3 might have a full white top under the catapult? Seems a little darker than turret 4, but definitely lighter than anything else around... and we do have that one photo where Maryland's #3 top is the same color as #4... perhaps Nevada had both of her aft turret tops white?

- Sean F.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:08 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 3201
The big circle is either rope or other material stowed on the roof of turret #2. Don't read too much from the March 1942 images of USS NEVADA for her painting on 7 December 1941, since she is in the process of repairs and likely doing some repainting as they proceed.

Look at the 10 December 1941 images posted earlier for images representative of her appearance on 7 December 1941.


Attachments:
zPHNYx32crop4-28Mar42.jpg
zPHNYx32crop4-28Mar42.jpg [ 21.73 KiB | Viewed 579 times ]
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:15 pm
Posts: 569
Came across some pretty cool onboard pics of Nevada dated 12/13/41 showing detail on the portside aft gun tub and the surrounding area.
Image

Image

Splicing both photos together give a better overall view.
Image

It's interesting to compare these photos with this Sept. '34 photo of the same area. Notice the stowed anchor and the cage are exactly as they were in 1934. Also notice the projector booth was raised up to the boat deck. Probably to make room for the gun tub.
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 6452
Location: In the hills of North Jersey
Nevada after repairs, PSNY, December 1942.
Attachment:
File comment: USS Nevada
USSNevada_121542.jpg
USSNevada_121542.jpg [ 599.25 KiB | Viewed 156 times ]

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 260 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 9, 10, 11, 12, 13

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests


You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group