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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:39 am 
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There's been a lot lost that we know of... a chief in Pearl Harbor who destroyed a lot of photos just before he retired because "no one would be interested in those old ships," is one I hear about from time to time.....

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:40 am 
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I'm sure there are similar stories surrounding most every shipyard or naval base in the country.
I have copies of plans from NARA that were salvaged decades ago. The condition of the drawings being evident they held no value before transferred to the archive.
What baffles me is why the Navy retained hundreds of design proposals while disposing vast quantities of drawings pertinent to the actual ships that were built from the proposals. The only thing that makes sense to me, the proposals were covering dust somewhere out of the way.

Anyway I sent you a request, and tomorrow I'll probably be taking a drive over to Bremerton.

Mike


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:00 am 
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So far I've been able to find pictorial evidence that answers questions regarding construction techniques of USS Nevada.
A riveted ship as built.
All upper works modified post 41 rebuild, and at least 1 torpedo blister welded construction.

Mike


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:31 pm 
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That fits with what I know of Texas, but as Texas was older I wasn't 100% sure, plus there's refit work in the mix.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:18 am 
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This is kind of fun.
I have found several distinguishing features between Oklahoma and Nevada at varying points/stages of their careers. Some are only valid for a period, while others are constant. There are quite a few photographs available on the net that are incorrectly labeled.

Mike


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:11 pm 
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How long I shall wait for a plastic 1/700 Nevada class ?.
Anyway, wanna ask if Nevada by 1945 had any doube Oerlikon 20 mm besides the standard single ones.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:51 am 
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I am unfamiliar with "Orelikon" guns. My main interest in American Naval vessels is pre Pearl Harbor back as far as Spanish/American war era, and mostly design and construction detail. I have not spent much time on armament. Are these the type of guns your asking about? I would guess them at about 20 mm

http://www.historylink101.com/ww2_navy/ ... /3798.html

http://www.historylink101.com/ww2_navy/ ... /3800.html

http://www.historylink101.com/ww2_navy/ ... /3801.html

Mike


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:56 am 
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Orelikons were 20mm mounts:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oerlikon_20_mm_cannon

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:55 am 
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Erm... whatever.
So did Nevada by 1945 had any doube Oerlikon 20 mm besides the standard single ones ?


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:46 am 
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Atma wrote:
Erm... whatever.
So did Nevada by 1945 had any doube Oerlikon 20 mm besides the standard single ones ?


Hard to tell in this picture, but with all the heavy AA, I'd say no, due to weight considerations.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:07 am 
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So this would spur a question on my part,.. what are the guns that I pictured?

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:09 am 
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Those are 40mm Bofors.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:32 am 
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Thanks,..

I just did a read of the refit and there is no mention of orelikon. The 40mm is mentioned

A couple close ups of midships dont reveal any 20mm.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013423a.jpg

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013423b.jpg

:big_grin:

Mike


Last edited by Ironship on Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:18 am 
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@ Atma

I can find nothing that suggest Nevada ever carried any 20mm armament. She had multiple refits throughout her career, several changes to large caliber AA. Had some BMG for a while, but never any 20mm. Have you read somewhere that Nevada had 20mm?

Oh almost forgot, google had good results for for "1/700 Nevada class"

looks like a manufacture, and ebay sales

http://www.scalehobbyist.com/catagories ... roduct.php

Cheers. :thumbs_up_1:

Mike


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:48 am 
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I don't know about doubles, but Nevada certainly did have 20mm Oerlikon singles during her career. See http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013603.jpg for proof.

Ironship wrote:
@ Atma

I can find nothing that suggest Nevada ever carried any 20mm armament. She had multiple refits throughout her career, several changes to large caliber AA. Had some BMG for a while, but never any 20mm. Have you read somewhere that Nevada had 20mm?

Oh almost forgot, google had good results for for "1/700 Nevada class"

looks like a manufacture, and ebay sales

http://www.scalehobbyist.com/catagories ... roduct.php

Cheers. :thumbs_up_1:

Mike


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:12 am 
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Mike, she did have 20mm mounts. They were the standard light AA mount from about 1942 on. Starting in 1945 the Navy started doubling up and putting twin 20s on some ships. You can see a twin 20mm here:
http://www.ussslater.org/weapons/20mm.html

A bit of history of the gun and some photos of the single mount are at :
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_2cm-70_mk234.htm

Back to Nevada.. we know she had 20mms. Look at this photo:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013644.jpg
There's a tub of them on the bow in between the anchor chains, andother set of 2-3 just outboard the second barbette, and two at the base of the stern aircraft base, to start. There may be more, but she's not my expertise, which is why I haven't answered as to whether she had twin 20s at all.

We can make a guess based on her "Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships" (DANFS) entry for 1945:

Quote:
Her gun barrels were relined at New York, and she sailed for the Pacific, arriving off Iwo Jima 16 February 1945 to give marines invading and fighting ashore her massive gunfire support through 7 March.

On 24 March, Nevada massed off Okinawa with the mightiest naval force ever seen in the Pacific, as pre-invasion bombardment began. She pounded Japanese airfields shore defenses, supply dumps, and troop concentrations through the crucial operation, although 11 men were killed and a main battery turret damaged when she was struck by a suicide plane 27 March. Another 2 men were lost to fire from a shore battery 5 April. Serving off Okinawa until 30 June, from 10 July to 7 August she ranged with the 3r d Fleet which not only bombed the Japanese home islands, but came within range for Nevada's guns during the closing days of the war.


Quite a lot of text for seven months, eh? Regardless, it doesn't mention any overhauls after New York, and if that is the case, she's unlikely to have carried the twin 20mm. It is possible they were fitted at a forward base, however, so it's not a sure thing.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:58 pm 
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Glad some useful information was put up. Maybe that will help Atma.

Although I have no interest in Nevada post 41, its fun to know the level of devotion to AA after Pearl. Kinda makes sense eh?
Sounds like the only thing that could prove or disprove the notion would be a photo prior to the bomb test if guns had not been removed. Isnt there a picture out there of Nevada painted orange?

Mike


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:17 pm 
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Oh, there's plenty of documentation on it I'm sure, it's just that no one's gone looking for it. A destroyer expert on the board here (Rick Davis) has been going through the AA summaries for destroyers for some time and finding (if memory serves) monthly reports on changes per ship. I've been working on gun fire directors (amongst other things) and there are records of the units shipping out and being allocated for specific ships, it just depends on where you look. I've only looked at the records for Mare Island, Pearl Harbor, and Puget Sound Navy Yards, but the Bureau of Ships records in the DC archives probably has a lot more.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:34 pm 
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Tracy White wrote:
Oh, there's plenty of documentation on it I'm sure, it's just that no one's gone looking for it. A destroyer expert on the board here (Rick Davis) has been going through the AA summaries for destroyers for some time and finding (if memory serves) monthly reports on changes per ship. I've been working on gun fire directors (amongst other things) and there are records of the units shipping out and being allocated for specific ships, it just depends on where you look. I've only looked at the records for Mare Island, Pearl Harbor, and Puget Sound Navy Yards, but the Bureau of Ships records in the DC archives probably has a lot more.


Bureau of ships is a good source, found 175 photos of Nevada, and 168 for Oklahoma. My search is year specific so at this point I try and avoid info outside my interest, too much stuff to remember. :big_grin:

Mike


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:28 pm 
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Heres a little something that got my attention,.. a fellow enthusiast relayed to me that the big 5's hull dimensions, ie. beam/length ratio was based off the same formula as Noahs Ark,.. I got the calculator out, checked Nevada and Arizona, they are within just a few feet of having the same ratio if measured OA. If checked at waterline, its within inches.

Mike


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