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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 8:42 pm 
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I'm looking at building the 70's kit that's been in my stash for nearly 40 years.

Looking over it I noticed that the two directors atop the tower which were for the 6" guns are missing a sighting arm each.
Can someone please tell me what mark these were (Circa 1928) as I'd like to source some replacements if at all possible.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:25 am 
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Depends how much of the rangefinder arms appears to be missing. As designed, the kit's parts A12, A13 (the two for'd 6" L.A.DCTs) and the two Parts B39 (the lower halves of the after ones), plus Parts B31 and B32 are all correctly asymmetric. The rangefinders were mounted off-centre in the structure of the DCTs to reduce the swept arc on the inboard side, so that the DCTs could be mounted closer together.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:41 am 
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Last edited by EJFoeth on Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:14 am 
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tjstoneman wrote:
Depends how much of the rangefinder arms appears to be missing. As designed, the kit's parts A12, A13 (the two for'd 6" L.A.DCTs) and the two Parts B39 (the lower halves of the after ones), plus Parts B31 and B32 are all correctly asymmetric. The rangefinders were mounted off-centre in the structure of the DCTs to reduce the swept arc on the inboard side, so that the DCTs could be mounted closer together.



As you are looking at them the A12 left arm, A13, right arm, both back to the body.

Would these suffice?

https://www.shapeways.com/product/AQB7C ... arketplace


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:40 am 
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The 6" LA.DCTs' rangefinders were very assymetric - the inboard arm barely protruded beyond the side of the DCT's structure. See https://media.iwm.org.uk/ciim5/419/224/large_000000.jpg (where the DCTs are trained aft, so that what should be the inboard side is outboard) and https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item ... /205136471 (where the port DCT is trained for'd, and the starboard one is trained to starboard). Also note that the hood on top of the DCT is assymetric, set off in the direction of the longer rangefinder arm. The model parts shown at http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/pe ... age-09.htm give a rendition of the LA.DCTs (right-hand side, halfway down - ignore the HA.DCTs on the left, which (a) are the wrong mark for RODNEY and (b) show the aerials facing backwards!).

The Shapeways Mk IV HA.DCT to which you link is the wrong mark for RODNEY's fit - later in her career, she was fitted with a Mk I HA.DCT. The Mk IV HA.DCT looks nothing like the 6" LA.DCT.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:58 am 
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Took a photo, it's a bit blurry but you can make out the arms.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:12 am 
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The DCTs in the photo look to be a reasonably accurate replica of the real ones, at least as far as the resolution of the photo allows comparison. The rangefinder arms on Parts B39 should be similar.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:51 am 
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Regards


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:50 pm 
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mpgl62 wrote:
Regards


Ah, ok, so they aren't broken, that's how they're supposed to be.

Thanks guys for clearing that up.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:30 pm 
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Can someone tell me what the walkway is that the two sailors are on? is it an anti slip walkway? If so, when was it applied?

Reason I ask is I'm thinking of replacing the kit turrets with these: https://www.shapeways.com/product/BPLN8 ... rrets-1927

But as you can see, that walk way is not there, (as is the periscope to the rear left) nor is it on any of the others covering 1940-1944.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:38 am 
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Bill Clarke wrote:
Can someone tell me what the walkway is that the two sailors are on? is it an anti slip walkway? If so, when was it applied?

Reason I ask is I'm thinking of replacing the kit turrets with these: https://www.shapeways.com/product/BPLN8 ... rrets-1927

But as you can see, that walk way is not there, (as is the periscope to the rear left) nor is it on any of the others covering 1940-1944.
Attachment:
The attachment rodney.jpg is no longer available

This walkway consisted of a welded-on steel ladder, but was not always there. If needed you may add it with a PE ladder.
Attachment:
Turret top red.jpg
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 2:40 am 
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Bill Clarke wrote:
Can someone tell me what the walkway is that the two sailors are on? is it an anti slip walkway? If so, when was it applied?

Reason I ask is I'm thinking of replacing the kit turrets with these: https://www.shapeways.com/product/BPLN8 ... rrets-1927

But as you can see, that walk way is not there, (as is the periscope to the rear left) nor is it on any of the others covering 1940-1944.

Attachment:
rodney.jpg

It is probably that this walkway were corticene sheets. The path is different by ship/time. Please check for Rodney

http://ontheslipway.com/?p=3900

EJ Foeth is owner of that fantastic page, and also an user of this forum.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:42 am 
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I have always loved these two ships but the selection in 1/700 has historically been dismal. Beginning with both Tamiya kits, both were good for the 1970s, but suffer from plain bulkhead detail, detail inaccuracies, and they are waterline kits. I was eagerly awaiting the Meng offerings as being full hull, but was very disappointed by their toy-like appearance. Their one redeeming feature was the lower hull. Then, I heard of the Trumpeter kits. Both have great detail with minor detail problems, but, they are waterline (Shame on Trumpeter for omitting the lower hull!). I did not know of Trumpeter having made these kits waterline only, but, I had the Meng kits sitting on the shelves. I saw a project in the making!

I have started grafting the Meng lower hulls to the Trumpeter waterline hulls. They fit perfectly! At last, I have both ships in full hull at 1/700 scale!

Bill


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:47 pm 
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In case people have not seen it, there is a magazine just out (in French) about Nelson and Rodney:
https://www.avions-bateaux.com/produit/recherche/4041 I have no connection with the shop or publisher aside from having bought stuff from them. I do like the Nelson Class so I bought the magazine anyway and it arrived today.

Of interest is a photo of Rodney from the 'late 1930s' (no exact date given) showing Spanish Civil War neutrality stripes on 'B' Turret. Also on the roof of 'B' Turret are large white identification letters 'RY' offset to one side to be clear of the walkway.

I had not seen a photo of that before. Other reference books I have only mention Nelson as having identification letters at this time and not Rodney. There also seems to be a narrow white stripe at the outer edge of Rodney's blue neutrality marking stripe, i.e. towards the stern. Again, I had not seen a photo showing that variation before.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 6:27 am 
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We have been working behind the scenes with our friend Richard Dennis for some time to map out how HMS Nelson's camouflage scheme evolved from the beginning of WW2 through to the end of the war.



We are fairly comfortable we have these mostly right, and indeed various snippets of colour cinefilm help us pin down certain starting points to work away from (e.g. B5 and MS4 on the port side of B-turret as shown in the screen capture below). There is always room for uncertainty of course, and there's always a chance we're mistaken in some areas. We have mapped here the camouflage changes and time windows as best we are able to. We hope these are useful to model makers.



Happy modelling folks!



With the Home Fleet until being torpedoed in September 1941:





After repair of torpedo damage through to late 1942:





By spring 1943 she had received some detail changes, including deletion of the MS4 "slash" on the starboard quarter and the starboard side of the funnel being painted mostly B5 similar to the port side:





The 1941 era "MS & B" paints were, as many now know, replaced with the simplified "G&B" series paints as of May 1943. We don't know when HMS Nelson would have started to repaint after the new paints came into use, but photographs of her into 1944 still show tidy paintwork so reason suggests that her MS4 was replaced with the tonal equivalent B30, giving the ship a new overall bluish appearance:





She headed to the east coast of the USA for refit in late 1944 and emerged in January 1945 sporting new Bofors AA gun mounts on equally new platforms. She left the dockyard wearing the new Admiralty standard "Scheme A":

[img]We have been working behind the scenes with our friend Richard Dennis for some time to map out how HMS Nelson's camouflage scheme evolved from the beginning of WW2 through to the end of the war.



We are fairly comfortable we have these mostly right, and indeed various snippets of colour cinefilm help us pin down certain starting points to work away from (e.g. B5 and MS4 on the port side of B-turret as shown in the screen capture below). There is always room for uncertainty of course, and there's always a chance we're mistaken in some areas. We have mapped here the camouflage changes and time windows as best we are able to. We hope these are useful to model makers.



Happy modelling folks!



With the Home Fleet until being torpedoed in September 1941:

Image



After refit she was painted in a new Admiralty Disruptive pattern scheme through to late 1942:

Image
Image



By spring 1943 she had received some detail changes, including deletion of the MS4 "slash" on the starboard quarter and the starboard side of the funnel being painted mostly B5 similar to the port side:

Image



The 1941 era "MS & B" paints were, as many now know, replaced with the simplified "G&B" series paints as of May 1943. We don't know when HMS Nelson would have started to repaint after the new paints came into use, but photographs of her into 1944 still show tidy paintwork so reason suggests that her MS4 was replaced with the tonal equivalent B30, giving the ship a new overall bluish appearance:

Image



She headed to the east coast of the USA for refit in late 1944 and emerged in January 1945 sporting new Bofors AA gun mounts on equally new platforms. She left the dockyard wearing the new Admiralty standard "Scheme A":
Image

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:31 pm 
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The 200th scale Trumpeter kit lists the ship as being 1944, but what exactly does that mean? Nelson's refit wasn't complete until 1945. I find the Standard A camouflage quite boring and would opt to go for the Rodney kit if this is the case. If the 1944 kit actually represents the kit in January of 1945, how difficult is it to backdate it to let's say, D-Day?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:46 pm 
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this link shows her in post 1944 refit http://www.trumpeter-china.com/Uploads/ ... 4acde3.jpg
Nelson had by the fall of 1943 48-2 pdrs & 41-20mm guns. https://world-war.co.uk/bb/nelson_class.php3


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:03 pm 
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If the intention is to depict the ship accurately in her 1944 camouflage scheme, then do not fit the quadruple 40mm Bofors mountings. These were fitted in her 1944-45 refit, after which she wore the scheme shown on the boxlid. The model depicts the configuration after this refit; to show her in her multi-coloured scheme other changes would be needed (reduction in light anti-aircraft armament, reinstatement of armoured director hood forward of the bridge, rearrangement of boat storage etc).

Note that there are several examples of completed models of NELSON purporting to represent her D-Day configuration which depict the Bofors mountings - this is incorrect!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:46 pm 
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On the 1/200 model, I see 4 quad 40mm bofors. These, I assume were added in Philadelphia in 1944. How many 20mm were added during this refit? I think a big hurdle to overcome on the model would be all the 20mm mounting holes on the deck if they weren't there prior to refit.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:52 pm 
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The forward pair of quadruple 40mm Bofors, their platform and associated supports replaced the armoured director hood on top of the conning tower ahead of the bridge. The after pair and their sponsons were new additions when the boat deck was remodelled and boat stowage reduced/rearranged. To backdate to early-mid 44, 24 of the 20mm Oerlikons (and their "tubs, ready-use lockers etc) must also be omitted; references are unclear, but some of: four of those on the foc's'le, the two abreast "B" 16" turret, two of those atop "C" turret, two of those abreast the after edge of the tower bridge at shelter-deck level, all ten of those at shelter-deck level on the boat deck, the six at conning-tower platform level, the after one of the three each side on the sponson at projector-platform level and the four on platforms on the tripod mainmast.

The photos at https://i.redd.it/bgvu8n9iz0hy.jpg and https://www.naval-encyclopedia.com/wp-c ... Nelson.jpg may help.


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