The Ship Model Forum

Sorry for the multiple posts, but these last two I thought deserved their own.

As I have pointed out in other places, Five Star Photo Etch kits often contain vastly more PE parts than are mentioned in the Instructions, especially for USN ships (but I have found the same thing on a few IJN DDs, where they will include parts for the entire life of the ship).

In documenting the USS San Francisco's parts (for which I keep meaning to make a thread), I discovered that it contains the parts for the entire life of the ship.

I have discovered the same thing is true of the Five Star USS Washington Kit.

Not only does it contain the parts for the Early and Late-war USS Washington, but it also includes the parts for the Early and Late-war USS North Carolina (as the kit is built, and the late-war).

It took me a while to track down some of the relevant parts, but I discovered that it had far more quad 40mm gun tubs that were on the Washington, but not than were on the N. Carolina.

I also located the Splinter-shields for the aft 20mm Oerlikons (where it has a shield for Four of the guns, instead of the three in the kit), and for the upper deck 20mm Oerlikons, next to the conning tower, where there are supposed to be three, and not two.

To get these, you swap the Aft three gun Splinter shield for the upper-deck Splinter-shield (the aft one "As built" is a three gun), and then you use parts F-26 for the four-gun Splinter-shields in the aft of the ship.

I am still working out all of the other bizarre parts, because many of them belong solely to the USS N. Carolina.

But I am now beginning to wonder if this might not also be the case with the Five Star USS South Dakota Photo-Etch kit (that it includes the entire life of the ship - I will have to check).

MB

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Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16

I am just collecting references for building the Trumpeter's 1/700 USS Washington and the same came on my mind when I saw this photo 3 days ago. Not only there are 40 mm Bofors mounts installed but the aft Mk 3 Fire Control Radar antenna has been replaced for the Mk 8 and the forward one Mk 3 is of different mod that was installed in the summer 1942 refit in New York. I suppose the photo displays the Washington as she looked between August 1943 and March 1944 (more specifically, after her second major refit that occured in Pearl Harbor between 28 May - 27 July 1943). The reason why:

Norman Friedman states on the page 277 of his U.S. Battleships - Ad Illustrated History Design book that
- "The Washington did not have her six quadruple 1.1-inch machine cannon replaced by ten quadruple 40mm guns until the summer 1943. By August, she had all fifteen mounts."
- "Oerlikons could be easily fitted at facilities in forward operating areas, but the heavy quadruple Bofors were added only during major refits. Thus changes in the heavy antiaircraft battery corresponded to a few large refits for each ship."
- "Corresponding major refits for the Washington were carried out at New York Navy Yard (23 July - 23 August 1942); Pearl Harbor (28 May - 27 July 1943); Puget Sound (March and April 1944, after her collision with Indiana); and Puget Sound (23 June - mid-September 1945)"

As we know how she looked after the first refit before she sailed to the Pacific Theater of Operations,
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/015607.jpg
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/015626.jpg
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/056/015610.jpg

no other explanation comes to my mind.



The Friedman's unfortunately does not have the Nov 1942 drawing, so only the numbers. Again, all can be found on the pages 276-277:
- 6 x quadruple 1.1-inch mounts
- 35 x 20mm Oerlikons
- 0 x 0.50-inch machine guns

By the way, the mentioned Ed McDonald's model http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html contains just this configuration and I think it can be used as an excellent reference.

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- David
------------
Almost completed: BB-44 ('45), BB-56 ('42), BB-59 ('44)
Just building:

The disposition of AA at the time of Guadalcanal (November '42) is illustrated on the opening pages of Musicant's book ...



Paul

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http://paulbudzik.com/current-projects/Neptune/Lockheed_Neptune_Model_Budzik.html
http://paulbudzik.com/tools-techniques/outside_the_box.html

Hi Paul, I have this book in paperback and always used it for reference for Washington in November 1942. That is until Steve Wiper posted some photos of Washington a number of years ago when he released his resin 1/350 kit. The photos taken in August 1942 before going to the Pacific show the additional two 1.1" AA mounts with tubs on the stern where the drawing in Musicant's book shows four 20 mm. I think the drawing is also missing a number of 20 mm guns.
Frank Fowler

Just from the Photos I have in the Warship Pictorial for the USS Washington, she had 3 or 4 20mm Oerlikon's next to the Aft Level 01 Bridge Superstructure, and forward of the P/S of the #3 Turret, and Four in Front next to the #2 Turret, with either 3 or 4 on the P/S Shelter Deck of the Level 01 Superstructure.

I keep meaning to do a drawing for it like I have done for the USS South Dakota for the same period.

MB

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OMG LOOK! A signature

Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16

Thanks Frank, I had never noticed that about Musicant's drawing. Working off Wiper's book, I had already known about the stern 1.1's. They are also plainly shown on pg 55 yard photos Aug 42 during her refit. You'll have to fill me in on the 20's. You have a much better eye than I do.

Paul

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http://paulbudzik.com/current-projects/Neptune/Lockheed_Neptune_Model_Budzik.html
http://paulbudzik.com/tools-techniques/outside_the_box.html

OK...

I found the Photo I was looking for for the Washington's Oerlikon Outfit from August - November of 1942:

http://navsource.org/archives/01/056/015642a.jpg


She had:

• 8 20mms (4 P/S) Aft of the #2 Turret on the main deck.
• 10 20mms (5 P/S) on the Shelter Deck of the Level 01 Superstructure (or, at Level 02 of the Superstructure).
• 6 20mms (3 P/S) Aft of the Level 01 Superstructure and forward of the #3 Turret on the Main Deck.
• 3 20mms on the #3 Turret.

That is 27 of them, and she might have had 30.

The Five Star PE Detail kit for the North Carolina-class (USS Washington) also includes PE parts for this AA outfit, as well as PE parts for the Earlier-war Outfit (from April - August) of 12 (6 F/A)|(3 each P/S) of the Level 01 Superstructure, and 4 on the Level 01 Shelter Deck (2 each P/S).

I keep meaning to start work on this ship, but I need to do the 3D Models for the Twin 5"/38 mounts for the ship (3D Modelparts only does the mounts for the Cruisers, and not for the BBs, which had a taller face on them).

I'll do a plan of the AA Layout for August - November like I did for the South Dakota.

MB

_________________
OMG LOOK! A signature

Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16

Oops... forgot...

It also had two, and possibly six 20mms on the Forecastle.

And it may have had 2 20mms on the Stern, just before the catapults.

So that would be 29 - 35 20mm Oerlikons.

MB

_________________
OMG LOOK! A signature

Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16

Will do Paul. Its not like we don't live more than three or four blocks from each other!!

Yea !!

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http://paulbudzik.com/current-projects/Neptune/Lockheed_Neptune_Model_Budzik.html
http://paulbudzik.com/tools-techniques/outside_the_box.html

Greetings men. Getting my ducks in a row for a build of the NC using the Yankee model works Washington resin kit in 1/350. Thanks Matt, for the heads up on the eBay listing!. As it appears to me, this kit would be accurate for her fit after the torpedo repairs at Pearl (pre-Strykers bridge) and before the refit at Bremerton. As best I can tell, the spare anchor cut-out at the port bow is still present at this time, and she is painted in m21. I am wondering if the theater applied m32 18d camo was applied before she lost the anchor cut-out or after, and if Strykers bridge had been installed before or after that scheme was painted on. I can't seem to find exactly when these two changes were made. I like the m32 camo, but m21 would be OK too if the model's fit dictates. I don't want to go to the trouble of removing the spare anchor stowage cut-out, or scratch building Strykers bridge just to be able to paint her in m32 18d.

Also, I see a 1/700 NC kit by pit road that looks interesting. Apparently, it comes with photo etch details and full hull. I have not found any mention of this kit. Anyone built it here?

Thanks!

-Woody

_________________
"It's not a mutiny if the commander is leading it!". -Wally Schirra, Commander, Apollo 7

Current project: Trumpeter 1/350 USS North Carolina

Future projects:
Yankee ModelWorks/Classic Warships 1/350 North Carolina
Trumpeter 1/200 Missouri

Captain, The Pitroad kit is the same as the Trumpeter kit. So if you can find a review on the Trumpeter model it will have what you need.

Woody, you can see the Pit-Road kit version with PE here: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10059408 Instructions and kit contents can be viewed. And as Frank notes, the plastic is the same as the Trumpeter version.

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De quoi s'agit-il?

Great! Thanks guys!

My Warship Pictorial #29 book by Steve Wiper just arrived in the mail today, so I was able to figure out that the first m32 camo paint and Stryker's bridge were both done at the Sept. '43 refit at Pearl. The aux anchor stowage notch was still there after this refit, so if I want to do the original "wavey" lined m32, the only thing I would have to scratch build would be Stryker's bridge. I may do that.

_________________
"It's not a mutiny if the commander is leading it!". -Wally Schirra, Commander, Apollo 7

Current project: Trumpeter 1/350 USS North Carolina

Future projects:
Yankee ModelWorks/Classic Warships 1/350 North Carolina
Trumpeter 1/200 Missouri

Hey guys. I've seen some nice BIG North Carolina models on youtube, most of which are RC models. They look like 1/200 or larger. I cannot find anyone who makes a large scale NC anywhere so I'm wondering where are these guys getting these? I think model monkey even lists some 1/200 scale NC parts in his shapeways store for an NC made by GPM. Who is that? After I finish the Yankee modelworks 1/350, I would really like a BIG girl, maybe even to put in the water as an RC. Anyone know where I can find one? Thanks gents!

-Woody

_________________
"It's not a mutiny if the commander is leading it!". -Wally Schirra, Commander, Apollo 7

Current project: Trumpeter 1/350 USS North Carolina

Future projects:
Yankee ModelWorks/Classic Warships 1/350 North Carolina
Trumpeter 1/200 Missouri

The RC models are made from Scratch.

I know a guy in Dallas who built several. And they are usually 1/192 Scale, or 1/100 or 1/98 for some of the larger ships.

I think there are a few kits now, but I would have to go check some of the RC sites that I know of.

MB

_________________
OMG LOOK! A signature

Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16

GPM is a Polish card/paper model manufacturer - not something you'd want to R/C!

Some companies make the hull and parts of the superstructure for you to detail - here's one for 1/96: http://scaleshipyard.com/Catalog%20Page ... #WHU-B%208
These are almost never complete kits, though.

_________________
De quoi s'agit-il?

Here is a website for large scale RC models ships.
http://www.wmunderway.8m.com/cgi/yabb2/YaBB.pl

The most common scale for rc models in the US is 1/96.
Fairly large and when they are done many end up in museums

Not many have build a North Carolina class BB.
At just under 8 feet it takes a lot to build one but they look really good on the water.

Scale shipyard has just about everything you would need to build one and Lee is very friendly and helpful.
Here's a link to SSY Battleship page
http://scaleshipyard.com/Catalog%20Page ... #WHU-B%208



There are a couple of runs that happen during the year for these models.

One is in Oct and is hosted in Rocky Mount, NC.
This run is a lot of fun and everyone is friendly and we have a good time
http://www.wmunderway.8m.com/cgi/yabb2/ ... 1350077275
http://www.wmunderway.8m.com/cgi/yabb2/ ... 1444415695


The other run is in Dec and is hosted in San Diego.
This run has been going for about 15 years and is a great place to find new friends and information.
http://www.wmunderway.8m.com/cgi/yabb2/ ... 1355526228

If you want more information and help you can contact me.

James

Thanks gents! Time to start saving my pennies!

-Woody

_________________
"It's not a mutiny if the commander is leading it!". -Wally Schirra, Commander, Apollo 7

Current project: Trumpeter 1/350 USS North Carolina

Future projects:
Yankee ModelWorks/Classic Warships 1/350 North Carolina
Trumpeter 1/200 Missouri

On my way down the coast to Charleston last weekend, I finally had a chance to see the North Carolina for the first time. I've been wanting to make the trip for quite a while
Much to my surprise, I was literally Christmas-morning excited to see that she was still painted in her camouflage pattern...I had no idea! I don't know how how I missed that (on this website alone), but it's a ship I haven't given much attention over the years.




She's a great-looking ship, and seems to be in decent shape. A few spots of rust here & there, but overall they maintain her pretty well.
I couldn't get a good look at her waterline hull area, so I can't say much for that.

In all, it's a very worthwhile visit if anyone ever has a chance. I didn't catch a single mention of the Washington anywhere (another surprise), but she provides a very good walk-though tour.

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I would like to have seen Montana...