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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:17 pm 
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Hopefully this is the correct sort of post for here and I won't be taken out and shot. :smallsmile:

I'm designing a 1:250 paper model of Inflexible and am undecided about the color scheme to use. First of all, this is an OLD pre dreadnought and most of the photos are not very clear. Then, she was around for quite a while and underwent a major change when the full ship rig was taken down and pole masts installed.

The earliest photos show her with black sides and black on the lower superstructure walls with (presumably) a black stripe above. I have also a photograph (from Burt?) showing her with this color scheme immediately after switching to pole masts. Later on she appears, still with black hull, but with a light grey for lower walls and stripe. Other British battleships had a single blue stripe higher up on the superstructure sides and I and other folks at papermodelers.com have debated and agreed that it is most likely that the lower walls were also blue. I'm attaching photos of both Inflexible and Edinburgh so you can see this light grey on the lower wall sides.

Do any of you have knowledge of H.M. ships coloring schemes for this era? Are we correct that the walls had light blue sides at the base? If so, what kind of blue? ...light blue? ...dark? ...royal blue? Or are we totally incorrect and the wall sides were maybe buff like the masts (although in the photos they seem a different color from the funnels which were pretty certainly buff)?

I have included some screen captures from the rasterized computer model to give an idea of the two proposed color schemes.

I would really appreciate any insight that someone can share.


Carl


Attachments:
HMS_Inflexible 01.jpg
HMS_Inflexible 01.jpg [ 84.41 KiB | Viewed 23194 times ]
small Edinburgh Beeler 1.jpg
small Edinburgh Beeler 1.jpg [ 108.56 KiB | Viewed 23190 times ]
Jan%2017%20C1F.jpg
Jan%2017%20C1F.jpg [ 49.97 KiB | Viewed 23195 times ]
Jan%2018%20C1.jpg
Jan%2018%20C1.jpg [ 47.2 KiB | Viewed 23187 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:02 pm 
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Location: Norfolk, UK
I have two colour illustrations of Inflexible. The first is a contemporary Fred Mitchell painting reproduced in "Ships of the Victorian Navy".

Image

The second is "The Inflexible Anchored at Spithead" by Charles Dixon.

Image

I guess you have come across these before, but they do illustrate the difficulties of determining the correct colours of these ships. I think the second, although probably not contemporary, is the more accurate

Although I would never recommend using someone else's models as an authoritative reference, Brian King's book "Modelling Late Victorian Battleships" has some nice examples of the livery.

Rick

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Black, white and buff - not grey!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:40 pm 
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Thank you for the illustrated pictures Rick. I'm not certain how for to accept the buff coloring of the first since many of these pictures were done without ever seeing the actual ship. And of course you couldn't be suggesting that I actually think that the grey in the photos represents actual grey. I'm pretty familiar of course with the Victoria photos if you can see the photo presentation that is at this site... although I personally cannot find it at all anywhere at this point. Navigation here is confusing to me.

Buff lower walls has been one of my major considerations but I have been talked out of it. Contrary to the second color picture of Inflexible I do not actually have any photos of the ship with that coloring... that is, white superstructure walls with a single blue stripe. This configuration is other wise common but I'm forced to choose between either the black or something lighter (but not white) on the lower wall sides.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:31 am 
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Hey Carl

I shall do some digging in my aper files

JOHN HAYNES some years ago built a very fine model of Inflexible in 1/96-- I believe it now resides in the Greenwich NMM collection-- I shall dig and scan....

meanwhile-- I recently posted a photograph of 1/384 Inflexible by John Prothero Thomas in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=39219

Image

a tiny image of the Haynes model:

Image

Its a US retailer of plans--inc John Haneys plan at 1/96 $ 27.00
https://sslrelay.com/s119033911.oneando ... shopscript

Will be in touch soon

Jim Baumann :wave_1:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:28 am 
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Jim, your illustrations reinforce what I said in my earlier post about using other peoples' models as a reference. They are both undoubtably very fine models, but the differences between their liveries is marked, although I would agree that they could both be correct, in that they may show the ship at different periods of its existence.

Rick

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:41 am 
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>>I would agree that they could both be correct, in that they may show the ship at different periods of its existence.<<

Yup-- I believe that to be the case also...-- I am going to have to do some digging now.

Although HMS Victoria did carry a blue band--I do not believe the band to be as deep as Carl suggests in his render...

Looking forward to seeing this develop!

JB :wave_1:

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:05 am 
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Are there plans for this ship available?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:53 pm 
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Yes, the plans of John Haynes can be purchased if you follow the link that Jim gives up above.

I'm going to test the blue under white sides to see what I think. Most photos of Inflexible under pole masts show her in the configuration with shaded lower sides under the stripe.

[edit] I'm attaching a few more rendered images of Inflexible with buff/white sides and a darker blue...


Attachments:
Jan 17 C1B MW.jpg
Jan 17 C1B MW.jpg [ 121.77 KiB | Viewed 23180 times ]
Jan 17 C1D MW.jpg
Jan 17 C1D MW.jpg [ 136.48 KiB | Viewed 23190 times ]
Jan 17 C1C MW.jpg
Jan 17 C1C MW.jpg [ 129.59 KiB | Viewed 23182 times ]
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2023 5:39 pm 
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I am dragging this very old thread up to ask more paint questions about Inflexible (as completed 1881). I don't have a very good feel for how ships of this era were painted. In particular I am struggling with horizontal non-wooden surfaces and the small boats

- Obviously hull sides black. For 1881 fit, it appears the superstructure and turret sides were black up to the superstructure deck, with a possible thin strip of white at the top. Above the turrets and superstructure deck the sides and railings were white

- Masts, funnels, vents: That brownish-orange color that I don't have a name for.

- Turret tops (horizontal): This appears white in photos. One recent model I have found shows them as a light tan color, lighter than the surrounding wood.

- The glacis plates on the deck surrounding the turrets: gray??. That's how it seems to be depicted on most models. All I can tell from photos is that it looks slightly darker than the surrounding wood.

-Small boats: sides appear to be white with no waterline except probably the 2nd class torpedo boat. The torpedo boat appears to have a waterline in photos - red? It looks dark in pictures. The boats look to have a darker stripe at the top of the hull, maybe blue?

- Main gun barrels look white? Could that be a trick of the lighting?

- What would the general color of small fittings on the deck and superstructure?

Thanks!


Attachments:
HMS_Inflexible_(1876)_port_side_view.jpg
HMS_Inflexible_(1876)_port_side_view.jpg [ 28.73 KiB | Viewed 20065 times ]
HMS_Inflexible_1896.jpg
HMS_Inflexible_1896.jpg [ 255.88 KiB | Viewed 20065 times ]
06301.jpg
06301.jpg [ 1.11 MiB | Viewed 20065 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2023 11:03 am 
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Check out AK11118 ochre for masts/yards/funnels. Just got a bottle and put a little bit on my Renown. Looks just about spot on.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 2:16 am 
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Location: Hajdúszoboszló, Hungary
You might be interested in two projects connecting the Fisher's first command: HMS Inflexible:
The first is a proposal from him to lengthen the ship by 15 meters (at the nose) to increase the sustained speed from roughly 12-12,5knots to 15-15,5knots:
https://www.deviantart.com/tzoli/art/HM ... -927754069

The other was an all big gun design with the armament layout based on Inflexible and Devastation called HMS Nonsuch:
https://www.deviantart.com/tzoli/art/HM ... -928683142


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 6:33 am 
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Thanks, TZoli,

Dear old "Jackie," always trying to go one (or in this case is it two?) better. However, I wonder if anyone took the ideas seriously and if they did, what did the Constructor's Department of the Admiralty think about the ideas?

81542


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 7:56 am 
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Interesting design concepts. As far as lengthening the ship, one of the key features of Inflexible was that the central armored citadel had most of the necessary bouyancy to ensure the ship remained stable and afloat. If only the 'soft' front was lenghtened this would probably no longer be the case. Then again, the smaller derivatives of Inflexible (Ajax, etc) also lacked sufficient armored buoyancy, considered a necessary evil of downsizing the ship.

Back to paint, any insight into the horizontal features? Many models depict coaling scuttles, etc in the deck as white or black but I am not convinced this is the case - in pictures there is barely any contrast with the wooden deck. I would guess they are the same color as the horizontal armored glacis around the turrets, but still not sure what color that would be. Gray?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2023 8:12 am 
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Not really these proposals are from letter exchanges between Fisher and a naval engineer. Note the Nonsuch displacement is 50% more than the battleships of the time and no way the Admirality would allow such heavy ship construction. But I've seen somewhat similar all big gun preliminary designs of late 19th century battleship classes. Say 2x2 2x1


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