The Ship Model Forum

Which year are you planning to do? I know dragon makes the 44 Pennsylvania. If you're doing a 41 fit IM not sure if anyone has done one. It's been a while since I searched the gallery.

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-Abram

I'm thinking Pearl Harbor time frame. The Arizona kits are closest to that, and since the '42 Mare Island config has so many AA guns and platforms installed that I'd have to scratchbuild I'm thinking it'd be easier to simply back-date it slightly to before they were all added. The only problem is there seems to be a lack of decent photos of Pennsy from any time frame prior to 1942. For example, did she have the 1.1 AA guns and tubs added by the time of the attack, just the tubs (like Arizona), or none at all? I've got Keystone Battlewagon but I don't think there's a line drawing of her config and paint scheme in late 1941.

When I get home Sunday I can send you the line drawing I made of her. I looked at all the pictures I could find and made it as close to how she looked that I could. At least I think so

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-Abram

Go to page 2 of this thread. There is a line of discussion about just these differences.
(As for the 1.1 tubs, Pennsy had 3" guns in them during the attack; not empty tubs like Arizona)

- Sean F.

http://navsource.org/archives/01/038/013809x.jpg

Another photo I found with what looks like a .50cal on the stern of Pennsy, this time during 1945. My question is, what was the purpose of this .50cal?

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-Abram

As the weapon is mounted only on a portable AA mount and is only on the dock side, I would GUESS that it was simply a temporary defensive/security measure when in port.


Dave

GTDeath13 wants a 1941 Pennsylvania, use the 1/350 Hobby Boss Arizona. They were sister ships!

Yes that is a good starting point, but they weren't identical. I've got another 1/350 kit I plan on converting to Pennsy after I finish my AZ.

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-Abram

Hey guys, I'm trying to figure out the reason Pennsy, Cassin and Downes were drydocked during Dec. 7th and I'm coming up short. DANFS was even a let down and I figured they'd list the reason if any but no joy.

What I know so far is that she entered the dry dock on or about Dec. 1 along with the two cans that may have been there first; can't find any dates for them. Pennsy was scheduled to leave on Dec. 6th and assume her usual berth behind the drydock (where Helena was during the 7th) but unknown "delays" prevented her from doing so. She more than likely owed her life to those unspecified delays as she more than likely would have drawn more attention and damage had she been moored normally.

One book I have, "Keystone State Battlewagon" only adds to this by stating that "her three screws had been removed" during the docking. Seeing as how she was a 4 screw ship that was either a typo or all 4 or only 3 were removed.

She was only scheduled to be docked for a week so I can't imagine anything really major was to be done but removing screws is a major operation so...

That's as much as I can discern about the reasons she was docked. I have Stillwell's Arizona book on order from the library but I doubt it will help.

I have a long term project on the books to display them as they were, drydocked, before the attack. I want to know as much as I can about them so I can add a small writeup to the project.

Any and all help is appreciated as always,
-Mike

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Drawing Board:
1/700 Whiff USS Leyte and escorts 1984
1/700 Whiff USN Modernized CAs 1984
1/700 Whiff ASW Showdown - FFs vs SSGN 1984

Slipway:
1/700 Whiff USN ASW Hunter Killer Group Dio 1984

There's frustratingly little information out there regarding Pennsy versus her more famous sister ship. Even decent photos of her pre-1942 seem lacking. I have the book Keystone Battlewagon, but not only is it a very thin book lacking in information but some of the pictures are actually of Arizona.

Yikes! I just recently got the Keystone Battlewagon book...I agree it was a little disappointing, at least based on what I was hoping for...which photos are of the Arizona??

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"If at first you don't succeed, switch to power tools." --Red Green

Not sure about Pennsylvania off the top of my head, but I'll do some looking. The destroyers were in the drydock to replace sections of the hull shell that had proved to not be strong enough.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

OK, her Pearl Harbor damage report states that repairs were being made to strut bearings and shafting, "incident to which three propellers and tail shafts had been removed."

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Awesome!!!! Thanks Tracy

So were the screws still off on the 7th then? Think I'll use some artistic license and depict her on the 6th still missing 1 or 2 and title it "More Delays" or something along those lines. What part exactly though is the "tail shaft"? Is it the part of the shaft that's outside the hull or just the very end, say between the screw and the final strut?

So the cans were getting hull plating replaced, neat! Guess I get to do some interior building now. Good thing I was going to scratch build them anyway

Thanks again man.

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Drawing Board:
1/700 Whiff USS Leyte and escorts 1984
1/700 Whiff USN Modernized CAs 1984
1/700 Whiff ASW Showdown - FFs vs SSGN 1984

Slipway:
1/700 Whiff USN ASW Hunter Killer Group Dio 1984

Screws were still off; it put Pennsylvania in a spot as they flooded the dock to try and put out the oil fires on Cassin & Downs, but all it did was float the burning oil and spread it. Since she only had one screw and all the tugs were busy fighting other fires, there was no way to get her out of the dock (I personally also believe that even had she had all of her screws she would have been stuck, as the drydock she was in was the caisson type and not hinged doors, so they would have needed a tug to handle it anyway, unless the captain was so desperate as to bash his way out.

Also, Tail shaft:
http://www.marineinsight.com/tech/auxil ... -on-ships/

I have high-resolution scan of this shot after the attack and will look and see if the screws were along side on the dock or otherwise in view.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thanks again Tracy!!! I look forward to your photo examination. I was looking at that site earlier and somehow missed the tail shaft explanation

The screws wouldn't have been kept inside the dock would they since the repairs were to the shafts and not the screws themselves? A case of why move them too far away when we're not going do to anything to them maybe or would they have put them outside the dock to protect them? I would like to display them somewhere so it doesn't look like I simply left them off to the casual observer. Would they bother sitting them on some cribbing or other support?

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Drawing Board:
1/700 Whiff USS Leyte and escorts 1984
1/700 Whiff USN Modernized CAs 1984
1/700 Whiff ASW Showdown - FFs vs SSGN 1984

Slipway:
1/700 Whiff USN ASW Hunter Killer Group Dio 1984

I don't see them around the drydock, but the bottom is in too much shadow to make anything out either. I've seen the Navy leave things on the bottom of a dock while the ship is being worked on, but I've also seen them pull them out, so it could go either way. I don't think they'd move them into storage for that short of a period of time, but it's possible.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Is anyone aware of any serious attempts to turn a Trumpy 1/200 Arizona into the Pennsylvania? If so I'd love to see pics!

Also, at what point in the war did the Pennsylvania get her teak decks painted over?

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-Jason Channell

Current Project: 1/200 Bismarck

Ok, this is a shot in the dark, but I'm trying to figure out a couple things. I've been reading; I understand the Pennsylvania left Pearl harbor for Mare Island around Christmas of '41 for repairs which were finished around March. She did not get here major overhaul until late summer of '42.

There are some REALLY great pictures of the Pennsylvania before her refit on Navsource (http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/38g.htm) but my question is this: what color is she painted?

It seems from the few color photos that other battleships at the time were wearing a grey color very similar to the Missouri or New Jersey today... or would the Pennsylvania have been painted a darker color more like the Texas is painted today?

Sorry about my lack of knowledge on WW2 paint measures...

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-Jason Channell

Current Project: 1/200 Bismarck

She was painted MS-21, which is overall 5-N Navy Blue with 20B Deck Blue decks. She was painted in this scheme during repairs after Pearl Harbor and remained in this scheme the rest of the war. Here's a good reference: USN WWII Camouflage Measures

On a different note I'm doing a Pennsylvania conversion, but in 1/350.

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-Abram