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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:01 am 
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Location: Wallburg, NC
Steve,

David P wrote:
Quote:
that "ledge" or seam cover that partially wraps around the bent joint of the starboard vent trunk, make it wider as there is an electrical or air driven hand tool sitting there in the red circled picture
. See my comments below about altering the width of that flanged joint.

It is NOT an elec. or air tool, it is an alarm - see blowup below:
Attachment:
Stbd Vent with Horn.JPG
Stbd Vent with Horn.JPG [ 34.07 KiB | Viewed 1220 times ]

Remember, this is 1940's era and many mechanical/pneumatic items were utilized in conjunction with newer electrical switches and activators to produce things such as a powered air alarm. This alarm is also mounted on the outside of the port vent shaft and a similar one is mounted below an elec. panel box on the stbd side of the main deck break bulkhead. I've shown this on my vent drawing in red.

As for the vent shaft lip that DavidP describes, it could be up to 2 1/2w x 1" deep. It's a 90 deg. angled lip connection and probably has a neoprene seal inside.

Not to get into a pissing contest over who has more or what experience as a draftsman, I have been a facilities board/CAD draftsman/designer for 46+ years and currently work in piping, HVAC, and P&ID CAD drawings in a project engineering group designing a new plasma fractionation facility at our N.C. location. I'm quite familiar with how HVAC ductwork is engineered/designed/drafted and these items in a shipyard would be pretty std. items for the time. Things today, however, are done quite differently as a matter of info. I'm not sure whether or not these are intake or exhaust vents, but I'm leaning towards exhaust due to the hinged deflector panels. The BoGP for ARIZONA only calls hers "vents" with no further description.

Hope this helps,

Hank

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HMS III
Wallburg, NC
BB-62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late 1940 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:36 pm 
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Posts: 543
Location: Downey, California
BB62vet wrote:
Steve,

David P wrote:
Quote:
that "ledge" or seam cover that partially wraps around the bent joint of the starboard vent trunk, make it wider as there is an electrical or air driven hand tool sitting there in the red circled picture
. See my comments below about altering the width of that flanged joint.

It is NOT an elec. or air tool, it is an alarm - see blowup below:
Attachment:
Stbd Vent with Horn.JPG

Remember, this is 1940's era and many mechanical/pneumatic items were utilized in conjunction with newer electrical switches and activators to produce things such as a powered air alarm. This alarm is also mounted on the outside of the port vent shaft and a similar one is mounted below an elec. panel box on the stbd side of the main deck break bulkhead. I've shown this on my vent drawing in red.

As for the vent shaft lip that DavidP describes, it could be up to 2 1/2w x 1" deep. It's a 90 deg. angled lip connection and probably has a neoprene seal inside.

Not to get into a pissing contest over who has more or what experience as a draftsman, I have been a facilities board/CAD draftsman/designer for 46+ years and currently work in piping, HVAC, and P&ID CAD drawings in a project engineering group designing a new plasma fractionation facility at our N.C. location. I'm quite familiar with how HVAC ductwork is engineered/designed/drafted and these items in a shipyard would be pretty std. items for the time. Things today, however, are done quite differently as a matter of info. I'm not sure whether or not these are intake or exhaust vents, but I'm leaning towards exhaust due to the hinged deflector panels. The BoGP for ARIZONA only calls hers "vents" with no further description.

Hope this helps,

Hank


While we're looking at this great blow-up of the starboard vent, note the folded-down forward deflector flange - definitely has a diagonal clipped edge. I'd lay the probability at 99% that the vent cap follows suit.

- Sean F.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:26 am 
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OK, here is an update version of the 1935 Vents drawing (1:200 scale) including the 6" dia. vent pipe outboard of the Port Side Vent Shaft.
Attachment:
BB-38 Main Deck Vents - small.jpg
BB-38 Main Deck Vents - small.jpg [ 122.83 KiB | Viewed 1127 times ]

The addition of the vent pipe simply adds a bit of detail - it was added in the 1935 refit.

Hope this helps,

Hank

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HMS III
Wallburg, NC
BB-62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late 1940 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:45 am 
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An interesting vent, it almost looks as if all the skirting plate extensions can be folded down for some reason, though only one is in that position in the photo. Wonder why they would do that?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:22 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 2909
Location: USA
Great discussion and drawings. Here's the final design.

In 1/200 scale, they are quite big, therefore, they are unfortunately, expensive.

Attachment:
1-200 Pennsylvania Vents.aa.jpg
1-200 Pennsylvania Vents.aa.jpg [ 27.5 KiB | Viewed 1090 times ]


Attachments:
1-200 Pennsylvania Vents.f.png
1-200 Pennsylvania Vents.f.png [ 116.2 KiB | Viewed 1090 times ]
1-200 Pennsylvania Vents.g.png
1-200 Pennsylvania Vents.g.png [ 86.96 KiB | Viewed 1090 times ]
1-200 Pennsylvania Vents.h.png
1-200 Pennsylvania Vents.h.png [ 174.34 KiB | Viewed 1090 times ]
1-200 Pennsylvania Vents.i.png
1-200 Pennsylvania Vents.i.png [ 80.79 KiB | Viewed 1090 times ]

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:27 pm 
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WAG... Intake vents with the upper mid plates, to help keep spray etc out, exhaust vent might not need this, depending on location?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:21 am 
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I ordered a set of these vents in 1/350 as soon as Steve posted them on his shapeways store. Got them in the mail Saturday morn and must say that was the fastest shapeways delivery to date! 5 days.
These look fantastic and the rough surface is not as prevalent on these as it is on some of the other items and they should clean up very nice with a touch of a sanding stick. The angled vent caps look spot on and so too is the little electrical conduit? running up the side on one vent. From what I see very little "extra detail" would be needed..

Overall impression?... fantastic!
thank you much Hank and Steve and all others who contributed.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:34 pm 
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Location: Downey, California
I know they weren't aboard on Dec. 7 '41, but did Pennsylvania have 3 or 4 Kingfishers assigned? That is, I'd expect 2-O-7, 2-O-8, and 2-O-9 from VO-2, but was there also a fourth for Admiral Kimmel's exclusive use, and if so, does anyone know how it was marked in late '41? (I don't expect the traditional "Blue Goose" scheme was in effect at that time... or was it?)

I looked over the 2nd Quarter 1941 fleet organization letter on Tracy's site:
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Misc/O ... ation.html
I see a mention of "1 VOS Plane - Flag Unit" under Pennsylvania and California near the top, before the letter gets into the BatDivs, so I'd guess the answer would be 4 total on these two battleships at that time and 3 on all the others - but as I recall, after that letter was issued they equipped with new Kingfishers, switched Pennsylvania from BatDiv 1 to 2, and changed aircraft color schemes twice, So... were they still embarking an extra, specially-marked Admiral's plane by the time of the Pearl Harbor attack? And was California still hauling one also, since that would be two fleet flagships in the same BatDiv once Pennsylvania transferred?

- Sean F.


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 Post subject: USS Pennsylvania
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:50 pm 
I have a question regarding the USS Pennsylvania (just bought Dragon models USS Pennsylvania). How did they get up to the top floor on the main superstructure. Where the three support beams hollow? On the dragon model there are two 50 cal MG high up on the main superstructure, how did they get the amo up there?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:10 pm 
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there was stairs. http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/ ... 85-2_a.jpg
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/ ... 70-2_a.jpg


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:21 am 
aha, thanks for the help☺


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:54 am 
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no problem.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:57 pm 
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I have a pic taken off the internet of the Arizona's wreckage that is still being kept near Pearl Harbor. A section of the rear main (centerline) leg has rungs inside that a person could climb that I assume would go all the way to the top most level. I seem to recall a few years ago when they dredged up a section of Oklahoma's mast, it also contained similar rungs. Just mentioning this in case anyone was curious.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:02 pm 
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Yesterday, Mark Krumrey emailed me with a "discovery" he had made while working on his AZ to PA Conversion - a small shed or deckhouse that was added to PENNSYLVANIA sometime after her '30s refit. It appears in quite a few photos up to 1941 but not after her Mare Island 1942 refit. This small raised shed appears in one of the following photos to be supported by two round poles as it probably extends over the lower main deck at the break. I've circled in red the following three photos to show where this item is located. It is not shown on any current renderings/plans/drawings, etc. that I've found. So, WHAT IS IT? :huh:
Attachment:
BB38 Port Side.jpg
BB38 Port Side.jpg [ 179.04 KiB | Viewed 1243 times ]

Attachment:
Cropped Amidships.jpg
Cropped Amidships.jpg [ 48.89 KiB | Viewed 1243 times ]

Attachment:
1935 Main Mast_1.jpg
1935 Main Mast_1.jpg [ 147.88 KiB | Viewed 1243 times ]

I have a possible thought on what this is based on a similar type of deckhouse that was temporarily installed on DD566 during our 1966-67 Westpac Cruise for a 3 week period by the CIA. While that organization wasn't even thought of in the 1930's, radio espionage (tracking) was handled thru the U.S.N. Communications Dept. and while a 'secret' comm. shed may have been thought of back then, who can say? It could also have been a small BBQ Smoke shack installed by the Commissary CPO if he had been from North Carolina :deadhorse: :joker: Nothin' says lovin' like a pig smokin' in the oven!! :yeah:

If anyone has any ideas, info, credible evidence - please share.

Thanks, Hank

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HMS III
Wallburg, NC
BB-62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late 1940 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:48 pm 
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There's an opening in the back.....a movie projection booth similar to Arizona's, just up higher?

Bob


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:04 pm 
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Bob Wrote:
Quote:
There's an opening in the back.....a movie projection booth similar to Arizona's, just up higher?


Now that's something I had not considered. Possibly a good answer - the opening in the back might possibly be for a projector lens. That's certainly a possibility given the size of movie (16mm?) projectors of the day.

Hank

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HMS III
Wallburg, NC
BB-62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late 1940 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 7:01 pm 
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Looks like its built onto the boat crane kingpost. And there's a railing around the top. :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:45 am 
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Whatever it is, it was installed between May 1934 and April 1935.

The second image was from a poor photo, so details are not great. Every other PENNSYLVANIA image I have dating in and after 1935 up to before the war shows the starboard side. There is not a similar "box" room on the starboard side.


Attachments:
zBB38x26-23Apr34crop.jpg
zBB38x26-23Apr34crop.jpg [ 57.06 KiB | Viewed 1007 times ]
zBB38x29-18Apr35crop.jpg
zBB38x29-18Apr35crop.jpg [ 78.47 KiB | Viewed 1007 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:19 am 
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I'm going with movie projector booth. Good find!

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"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:07 am 
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Rick:

Thanks so much for the 2 photos - the first one clears up what the port side bulkhead looks like - I haven't seen that one before. The second photo is a much clearer rendition of the "booth"!!

Tracy:

Indications are leaning in that direction - thanks!

Biggiles2:

No, it's not part of either the crane or kingpost - thanks!

I should be able to approximate the size and be able to update a drawing I've been working on for this particular area of the main deck for some time now.

Thanks, Gentlemen!

Hank

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HMS III
Wallburg, NC
BB-62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late 1940 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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