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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:20 am 
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Great Photo's especially the one of the port side without the "structure." Clearly, the "Gear Reduction" box and platform is present on that side as well. I will have to add that and the "structure" to the model. I am going with the projection booth.
Thanks everyone, great discussion and some photo's that clear a lot of things up.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:29 pm 
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The question is (for all intents/purposes) answered - Movie Projection Booth. Here is OKLAHOMA (1941) showing the similar shed that PA has (photos above) and a portion of the plan view of OKLAHOMAs BoGP showing that very space:
Attachment:
BB-37 from Aft.jpg
BB-37 from Aft.jpg [ 91.18 KiB | Viewed 661 times ]

Attachment:
BB-37 1941 Plan of Movie Booth.JPG
BB-37 1941 Plan of Movie Booth.JPG [ 24.17 KiB | Viewed 661 times ]

So, I have added this to my list of items to be scratch-built when I get back on PENNSY.

Hank

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Wallburg, NC
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Builder's yard:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late 1940 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:49 pm 
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Fascinating!
Excellent detective work by all involved.
Thanks for starting this post and for all the replies.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:13 pm 
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Chuck,

Thanks for the Kudos! It was an interesting discovery and subsequent investigation. Here's my current CAD rendering of the main deck bulkhead @ Frame 88 of PENNSYLVANIA in late 30's/early 40's based on my current information:
Attachment:
BB-38 Main Deck @ Fr. 88 -  Bulkhead Elevation & Deck Plan - Med.jpg
BB-38 Main Deck @ Fr. 88 - Bulkhead Elevation & Deck Plan - Med.jpg [ 161.9 KiB | Viewed 633 times ]

I based the size of the booth on "guesstimates" from the photos and once I have a scaled, full size sheet printed out of the OKLAHOMA's Plan, I'll make adjustments as needed. The height I took from the similar booth on NEW JERSEY aft of Turret #3.

Hope this helps all the PENNSY modelers out there. :big_grin:

Hank

edited - 02/15/17

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HMS III
Wallburg, NC
BB-62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late 1940 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


Last edited by BB62vet on Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:18 pm 
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don't you mean the late 30's early 40's?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:33 am 
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DavidP wrote:
Quote:
don't you mean the late 30's early 40's?


Thanks, David - Indeed, that is correct. I've edited my post accordingly. Nice catch, by the way!!

Hank

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HMS III
Wallburg, NC
BB-62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late 1940 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:23 am 
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no problem. I knew it was a typo as my late war Pennsylvania does not look like your frame 88 drawing.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:13 pm 
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Actually, the projector room didn't go unnoticed (just unidentified). I spotting it back on the bottom of page 2 of this thread (March 2011).

Now, in all fairness, I did completely forget about it when I finished a 1:700 late '41 Pennsylvania this past September. Forgot the boat booms, too. Got to take her in for a refit...

- Sean F.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:34 am 
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SeanF wrote:
Quote:
Now, in all fairness, I did completely forget about it when I finished a 1:700 late '41 Pennsylvania this past September. Forgot the boat booms, too. Got to take her in for a refit...


Isn't it amazing how these small items just keep popping up and causing anguish at the least opportune time?? :doh_1:

Hank

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HMS III
Wallburg, NC
BB-62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late 1940 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:20 am 
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Like SeanF I had picked up on it earlier also,..was back last spring for me.
Now according to Allen B. Chesley, the Profile and overhead drawings done for the 1935 FITOUT shows no such structure at that time.
However, according to the Floating Drydock Photo CD of the Pennsylvania class BB there are several pictures of the structure in place as late as circa 39-40. There doesn't seem to be any pictures at all for Pennsy from late 1940 thru 7-12-41 that show that side of the ship.
The earliest picture sources from the Mare Island Repair/Fit/Yard Work of early 42 , Jan thru March of that year shows Her without the structure. While there are NO clear precise shots of that King Post area, there are pictures of Her Starboard side Crane Post area showing elevated gun tub/'s for Her 1.1's.
Since my conversion dealt with the Mare Island early 42 work/fit, I didn't try to pursue it further.

Seems like any late 30's build would need it's inclusion . It could very well be included in a 7-12-41 build as there is no proof it wasn't there at that time.

Like Hank said; these little details keep popping up. I think more will too as the research light is cast on Her for "accurate" builds.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:08 pm 
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Gott_cha wrote:
Quote:
It could very well be included in a 7-12-41 build as there is no proof it wasn't there at that time.


Well, it turns out there IS proof that the booth was in place in late 1941 - there is a photo of PENNSY at 1010 dock in P.H. taken in Aug. 1941 in the book The Way It Was: Pearl Harbor: The Original Photographs (Donald M. Goldstein) and it shows the booth in place at that time.

Research - turning fiction into fact (is that a Hankism or ...) :big_grin:

Hope this helps!

Hank

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HMS III
Wallburg, NC
BB-62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late 1940 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:54 pm 
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Hi Hank,
Here are a couple of good looks at the projector booth.

Image

Image


Last edited by Jeff Sharp on Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:08 pm 
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Jeff,

As Horshack used to say "OOH, OOH, OOH"!!!!!!!!! Hot Damn!!! We're in the money, now!!!! :rolf_3:

Thanks, helps out greatly (didn't know there were 3 projector openings!!!). I'll need to modify my CAD drawing, but that's minor.

Thanks,

Hank

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HMS III
Wallburg, NC
BB-62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late 1940 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:46 pm 
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BB62vet wrote:
Gott_cha wrote:
Quote:
It could very well be included in a 7-12-41 build as there is no proof it wasn't there at that time.


Well, it turns out there IS proof that the booth was in place in late 1941 - there is a photo of PENNSY at 1010 dock in P.H. taken in Aug. 1941 in the book The Way It Was: Pearl Harbor: The Original Photographs (Donald M. Goldstein) and it shows the booth in place at that time.

Research - turning fiction into fact (is that a Hankism or ...) :big_grin:

Hope this helps!

Hank


7-12-41was PH day...thats military time rendering......sunday dec. 41....not july 12 41. Sorry Hank...As much as I want to agree and build mine as such,,,the record don't hold to that...again we have no solid proof either way....:(

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:56 pm 
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Not trying to obtuse but just saying,,,,it's not definitive......but hey I build mine as I see fit....y'all do the same. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:49 pm 
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Mark,

I'm not sure what you're getting at in your last 2 posts. The picture I referred to was taken in August 1941, 3 months PRIOR to 07 DEC 41, the day of the attack. So, I stand by my original comment. The booth was probably in place in December 1941 as PENNSYLVANIA did not have any further work done on her (structurally) between August and December '41 as far as I can determine.

I will see if there was a visit to Puget Sound Shipyard between August/December 1941 but I don't think that she left the Hawaiian Island theater during that time.

Hank

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HMS III
Wallburg, NC
BB-62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late 1940 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:17 am 
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Hank I had misunderstood what you said...sorry Brain farting I guess. ..:doh_1: No more MEK fumes for me today.

To clear it up....Pictorial evidence from August suggests the Booth Probably was there..I agree.
And with out evidence of Yard Work...it was in place on Dec 7 .......I agree..yes.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:38 am 
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Here is a pic dated 33 with Pennsylvania with the booth. Chad

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013896a.jpg

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:11 am 
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gott_cha wrote:
Hank I had misunderstood what you said...sorry Brain farting I guess. ..:doh_1: No more MEK fumes for me today.

To clear it up....Pictorial evidence from August suggests the Booth Probably was there..I agree.
And with out evidence of Yard Work...it was in place on Dec 7 .......I agree..yes.

Guys, check out the "high-rez" version here and zoom in on Pennsy:
https://www.history.navy.mil/our-collec ... 32953.html
I don't know what you will see, but to me it looks like it is still there.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:21 pm 
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Rick E. Davis posted some overhead shots of the battleships taken on Dec. 10, 1941 on the CASF Nevada-class thread, and we've had some interesting discussion over some zoom-ins he was able to provide for the Nevada. There is a shot of Pennsylvania in the bunch, and perhaps a zoom-in of the area around the port boat crane could give us definitive proof?
(However, from the photo angle, the mainmast birdbath might be in the way. It obscures enough that I can't see the projector room with the photo as-is. A zoom-in might allow us to pick out the corner of the room's roof or something.)

On the other hand, owing to all the very specific changes, re-painting questions, and so on, I've taken to building my Pearl Harbor fleet as "Late '41 fit" without insisting that they are specifically matching the morning of Dec. 7. (That way, I can also put them at-sea, with their full Kingfisher complements.) So yes, whether the booth was still there on Dec. 7 (I'm pretty sure it was), or not, I'll need to go back and add it. That's fine, just another bit of visual interest for the model!

- Sean F.


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