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Which were the best 1930's pre-war battleships built?
Poll ended at Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:55 am
King George V class (Britain) 17%  17%  [ 4 ]
Jean Bart class (France) 13%  13%  [ 3 ]
Bismarck class (Germany) 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
Vittorio Veneto class (Italy) 9%  9%  [ 2 ]
North Carolina class (United States) 13%  13%  [ 3 ]
South Dakota class (United States} 43%  43%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 23
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:55 am 
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USS Alabama, Indiana, Massachusetts, and South Dakota were the last and, arguably, the best class of pre-war "treaty" battleships to be completed. Unlike their younger, larger Iowa-class siblings, some of the class were involved in "big-gun" battles with enemy heavy units, and saw combat in both Atlantic and Pacific theaters of operation during WW2.

MODERATOR EDIT: ADDED LIST OF AVAILABLE KITS AND GALLERY ENTRIES
1/700
Trumpeter South Dakota
Trumpeter Massachusetts
Trumpeter Alabama
Hasegawa South Dakota
Hasegawa Alabama

Revell also released a 1/720 Massachusetts.

1/350
Trumpeter Alabama
Trumpeter Massachusetts

BWN/YMW also released the following in 1/350, but they are out of production:
South Dakota
Indiana

GALLERY ENTRIES:
1/720:
Paul Helfrich’s Revell Massachusetts as Indiana: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Erick Navas’s Revell Massachusetts: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Tim Reynaga’s Revell Massachusetts: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Jeremy Spencer’s Revell Massachusetts: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Jim Zee’s Revell Massachusetts: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Mario Grima’s Revell Indiana: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Alexandro Luiz Braga’s Revell Massachusetts: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm

1/700:
Gabor’s Hasegawa Alabama: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Charlie Patrick’s Hasegawa Alabama: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Tamiya Wang’s Hasegawa South Dakota: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Frank O’Neill’s Hasegawa Alabama: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Il Choi’s Hasegawa South Dakota: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Paul Helfrich’s Hasegawa South Dakota: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Nathanael Jansen’s Hasegawa South Dakota: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Erick Navas’s Hasegawa Alabama: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Mark McKinnis’s Hasegawa South Dakota: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Kostas’ Hasegawa South Dakota: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Bob Nadell’s Fujimi South Dakota: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Santiago Ezcurra’s Hasegawa South Dakota: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm
Luqmanul Hakim’s Trumpeter South Dakota: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm
Kyle Prestwood’s Trumpeter Massachusetts: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm
Jose Luis Arrillaga’s Trumpeter Alabama: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm
Luqmanul Hakim’s Trumpeter Massachusetts: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm

1/350
Dave Becker’s BWN Indiana: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Richard Sliwka’s BWN South Dakota (1942): http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Richard Sliwka’s BWN South Dakota (1945): http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Ed McDonald’s YMW South Dakota: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Bernd Villhauer’s Trumpeter Massachusetts: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Dave Hill’s Trumpeter Massachusetts: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Ed McDonald’s YMW Alabama: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Keith Bender’s BWN Indiana: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Robert Apfelzweig’s Trumpeter Massachusetts: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Kostas’ Trumpeter Alabama: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm
Kyle Prestwood’s Trumpeter Alabama: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm
Chuck Bauer’s Trumpeter Massachusetts: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm
Ken Summa’s Trumpeter Massachusetts: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm
Justin Jones’ Trumpeter Alabama: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm

Miscellaneous Scales
John Bange’s 1/500 South Dakota: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Russell Clark’s 1/192 Massachusetts: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Pieter Bakels’s 1/48 South Dakota: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:14 am 
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I am planning a build of the SoDak, but have very little reference and research material on-hand for this specific ship.

As far as I know, SoDak was the only ship of the four to complete with 16 5-inch/.38 DP guns. I have some questions to start with:

1) Was the SoDak designed with only eight secondary turrets?

2) If not, was she ever fitted with the "missing" pair before war's end?

3) Also, if she wasn't designed with only 16 5"DP, what was the reason she was not initially fitted with "all 20" ?

4a)From what positions, in relation to the rest of her sisterships, were the two turrets absent, and; 4b)what weapons, if any, occupied these positions until the turrets (if so) were replaced?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:39 am 
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SoDak was fitted out as a flagship and had those extra gun mounts left off to allow more room for the Admiral.

The armament changed over time with more guns added. She was built with 1.1's but later had these replaced with 40 mm mounts. 20's were added anywhere where space allowed. Those 3 quad 40 mm mounts were added after the Guadalcanal battle.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:42 am 
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RNfanDan wrote:
I am planning a build of the SoDak, but have very little reference and research material on-hand for this specific ship.

As far as I know, SoDak was the only ship of the four to complete with 16 5-inch/.38 DP guns. I have some questions to start with:

1) Was the SoDak designed with only eight secondary turrets?

2) If not, was she ever fitted with the "missing" pair before war's end?

3) Also, if she wasn't designed with only 16 5"DP, what was the reason she was not initially fitted with "all 20" ?

4a)From what positions, in relation to the rest of her sisterships, were the two turrets absent, and; 4b)what weapons, if any, occupied these positions until the turrets (if so) were replaced?


Check out this page on the Naval Historical Center website, which says "Compared with her three "sisters", South Dakota had extra command facilities and two fewer 5-inch twin gun mounts". BB-57 (which was built here in NJ!) was designed as a flagship, so two 5inch mounts were eliminated from her design to save weight.

If you look at these pictures, one of South Dakota and one of Indiana, you can see the different layout of the secondary battery. It appears that SoDak not only had a different number of 5 inch twin turrets, but they were laid out a little differently.

So, to answer your questions:

1) Yes
2) No
3) See #1
4a) See the attached pictures
4b) Her AA fit depends on what time frame you want to build her as.

Image
Image

These were quite handsome ships. IMO, they were the best of the treaty battleships. I've got the BWN SoDak and the YMW Indiana in my stash. I'm thinking of backdating SoDak to her "as launched" configuration, in which she wore (briefly) a Ms12 mod camo.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:01 pm 
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My thanks to you both, Tim and Martin! Well, I've got some homework to do!

:smallsmile:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:05 pm 
RNfanDan wrote:
My thanks to you both, Tim and Martin! Well, I've got some homework to do!

:smallsmile:


SoDak's bridge also has differences from her sisters. Patience for refereance materials Grasshopper, publishing customer has all the RG-19 photos of the class.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:10 pm 
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Anonymous wrote:
SoDak's bridge also has differences from her sisters.


I suspected as much, as in RN practice except for a few ships, there were often structural distinctions when Flag accomodations were designed-in.

:smallsmile:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:45 pm 
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I'll be taking a trip from Wisconsin to Yellowstone National Park. Our route is taking through Sioux Falls, SD, where the USS South Dakota Memorial is located. Anyone been there? Is it worth an hour or two?

Thanks.

Charlie


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 3:51 pm 
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Dunno if it's worth the trip, I've never been, but if you go could you post some pics?

Hey Dan, would this possibly the same SoDak your converting from the Iowa hull?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 4:57 pm 
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Avery Boyer wrote:
Hey Dan, would this possibly the same SoDak your converting from the Iowa hull?


If I can determine that SoDak herself, spent time as an Atlantic Fleet unit, as her sisters Alabama and Massachusetts did, the answer is yes.

Otherwise, it's going to be one of the latter ships that gets built from the modified Iowa hull.

:thumbs_up_1:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 7:59 pm 
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Wouldn't it be easy to convert from the upcoming Trumpeter Alabama/Massachusetts?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:16 pm 
RNfanDan wrote:
Avery Boyer wrote:
Hey Dan, would this possibly the same SoDak your converting from the Iowa hull?


If I can determine that SoDak herself, spent time as an Atlantic Fleet unit, as her sisters Alabama and Massachusetts did, the answer is yes.

Otherwise, it's going to be one of the latter ships that gets built from the modified Iowa hull.

:thumbs_up_1:


That's got to be a pretty tough conversion, from a BB-57 to a BB-61 hull!

JM


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:24 pm 
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here some pic of the Alabama firend when there away go

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/gjw6969/a ... 08&.src=ph


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:48 am 
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The armored command deck on the bridge was raised up two decks higher as it was configured for the Flagship role, as pointed out earlier the extra pair of 5" mounts were left off to save on weight and improve the balance of the ship due to the increased height. The class also was noted for better seakeeping qualities over the previous North Carolina and earlier classes. Good choice for a build, I noticed that Squadron has the 1/700 kit by Hasegawa on sale this month for $13.46. Don't know how accurate the kit is but at that price it is worth checking out for me.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:56 pm 
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I'm currently working on a BB-57 from the Hasegawa kit, spliced together with a bunch of parts from a new Trumpeter North Carolina. (Central Carolkota? Dakolina? Just kidding, I'm detailing and accurizing the SoDak with Trumpeter's parts.) After many hours work re-shaping the bow and adding a myriad of little detail bits I finally painted the Navy Blue this evening. I can go into more detail if you guys would like.

Anyway, my question is: what are those black things on top of SoDak's turrets? They are visible in the photo posted earlier in this thread, and I've seen them on photos of her taken throughtout the war but not on her sisters, who usually have liferafts up there. (And those black things are definitely not liferafts.) I've seen similar things in photos of Nevada, post-repair/rebuild. Anyone know what they are, and any suggestions how to replicate them in 1:700?


Thanks.

- Sean F.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:55 pm 
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In response to the earlier post about the Sodak memorial in Sioux Falls. I was there in the early '80s as a teen. They had an anchor, mast and gun barrel tips mounted in an imitation turret shape. Also, the memorial had a short concrete wall which supposedly was the outline of the ship. I have not been there since but that is what I recall. Did you stop there on your trip out West? Let us know what is was like if you did.

J. Seeling


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:58 am 
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A couple of months ago I scanned in a damage report for South Dakota's detailing the bomb hit she suffered in June of 1944 that killed 24 and wounded 27. That report is now online. I haven't done my final proof-read yet, and three blueprints are on the way, but the text and photos are all there. Enjoy!

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 Post subject: decks
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:07 am 
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i am modeling a 1/192 massachusetts,does anyone know how much if any camber is in the decks


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 Post subject: boat crane
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:01 pm 
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Mass and S. Dakota apparently where launched with boat cranes as on the N. Carolina class, anyone know if and when they where removed? I am building a Mass now. A boat crane is supplied with the skywave e9 set..


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 Post subject: Re: boat crane
PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:26 pm 
bb-56 wrote:
Mass and S. Dakota apparently where launched with boat cranes as on the N. Carolina class, anyone know if and when they where removed? I am building a Mass now. A boat crane is supplied with the skywave e9 set..

BB-59 still has the crane so I will try the skywave one.


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