The Ship Model Forum

Once the war started, the wood deck was painted. In MS-21 (the overall blue scheme) the vertical surfaces were navy blue (5-N) while the decks were deck blue (20-B).

Hello

I'm looking for photos of underwater part of hull bettleships type South Dakota. Maybe someone have a shell expansion or steel plate arragement.

Thank You for any help because now I'm building model od USS Alabama.

Best regards
Chris

Chris. I am currently building Alabama in 1/96. If you look at Navsource http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/05bbidx.htm you will see a lot of pictures of all four SD class ships out of water. I also have a lot of pics of Alabama I took at the memorial showing really good above WL detail. The sun was just right. If your interested in these let me know.

Regarding the "Green Battleship" theory, I have a theory/question regarding that.

We all know that various paints faded and chalked rather heavily. Is it possible that one of the Measure 15 paints faded or chalked into something looking more green and that was the origin of the green theory? The fading of the Pearl Harbor battleships painted in Measure 1 has been the subject of much debate for awhile now, and may - may - have helped spawn the idea of blue battleships at Pearl. I was once in contact with the son of a USS Farenholt crewmember from 1942, which wore one of the crazier patterns. His father wasn't positive about the paint colors that were used in her Measure 12 modified scheme, but the idea of one of them looking more green seemed to trigger a small memory. He said it was possible, although he couldn't confirm it.

Anyway, just a supposition/idea/small whimsey on my part. Is this a possibility? Does anyone know the fading and chalking behaviors of the paints used in Measure 15?

Also, does anyone have an opinion on which Pontos deck would work for Indiana? They list both a Massachusetts and an Alabama, but I don't know which one would be best. I'm going to build her using the Yankee Indiana conversion, and I'm thinking of a 1942-43 configuration, either in her Measure 15 'green" look, or as she reported to the Pacific Fleet in decidedly more boring colors.

Many thanks,

Bob

Let me hit this green business from a different angle...

Every SoDak-class reference book I've read for the last 20 years makes a point of refuting the green battleship rumor, if it gets mentioned at all. In fact, I have never seen a book that actually advanced such a theory. And yet, every now and then, a post comes up on the forum asking about which one was painted green, or if someone kows the pattern for it. So I'm just curious... what is the reference source that's still floating around out there that keeps this rumor cropping back up?
It reminds me of the torpedo hit on Arizona, or the bomb going down the stack - both of which have long since been dismissed, but which often get cited anyway. This, I'm sure, is partilly thanks to the historical documents written in the immediate aftermath of the attack which made those speculations, and of course people are going to read those and not follow up any further. And I recall there being some innacuracies in the old Revell instruction sheet that keeps circulating, or which many as kids learned from and keep remembering. So... again, does anyone know the source for this persistent green SoDak rumor?

- Sean F.

I first saw it mentioned in one of the Floating Drydock's old camouflage books, one printed back in the '70s. It mentioned (going from memory, here) that there were several reports or accounts of green battleships, but that they weren't able to substantiate them.

I'm secure in the belief that Indiana wasn't painted in greens. However, the persistent mentioning of the green battleship theory makes me wonder if there was some basis for people to think they were seeing green. Its like the blue Pearl Harbor battleship idea. There were blue ships at Pearl, mostly a few destroyers and perhaps a few cruisers. Was there some other reason that people persistently believe that the battleline was blue? Either some of it it was, or there is some other reason other than mass hysteria at work to account for the belief, hence, my paint fading and chalking idea. Measure 1 could fade and chalk into something resembling a dark blue under certain lighting conditions, so...

Paint orders and timing of Arizona's dry docking. See the full discussion in the Arizona fans thread if interested

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De quoi s'agit-il?

http://www.hlj.com/product/PITGB-05
Those resin turrets, can be used for USS South Dakota class too ? Cause the main turrets of USS North Carolina class were different in appearance at least from those of USS South Dakota.
Anyone has any expirience/used them ? Thoughts and comments.
Thanks in advance.

Tim, I think you may have misunderstood me. I tend to think that Arizona was blue. I wasn't arguing that she wasn't. My point was that either something is or something isn't. Either Arizona was in blue or there was some sort of "mass hysteria," as I put it at work. Since she most likely was in blue, and textual evidence tends to support that, then those who claimed that she was in blue clearly weren't crazy despite previously accepted "truths."

The same argument can be made for the green battleship theory. There were also reports of green destroyers in the South Pacific at around this time. Either there were green ships there, or there weren't and those who witnessed them were either nuts or perhaps, just perhaps, they were seeing something that they thought was green, hence my paint chalking and fading theory.

Again, its just an idea meant to stimulate thought and discussion. Since I'm resarching an Indiana build its of some interest to me.

I recently got the Trumpeter 1/350 USS Alabama as i wanted to paint a ship in a camo scheme .I initially wanted to go as the box art but i came across a slightly different scheme, splotched Measure 15 in the Squadron signal book of US Battleships of WW2 Vol 2.Unfortunately it only show one side (stardboard i think) plus the coloring of the printed image is suspect to say the least.Anyone here has some more info on that camo scheme?

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http://katsflyby.blogspot.gr/

You mean this pattern?

That's BB-58, USS Indiana, not Alabama. You can find more photos of that scheme here

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Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

I know this scheme is for Indiana.But in the Squadron signal booklet it sais ''Alabama December 1942'' and shows a scheme with at least 3 colors and irregular pattern, and its naming it as ''Splotched Measure 15''.

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http://katsflyby.blogspot.gr/

You need to be very careful with some of the information in the Squadron Signal series. They are not (with a few exceptions) noted for their accuracy. Both the Ship's Camouflage site and Navsource indicate that Alabama was in MS-12 (mod) during that period. The MS-12 (mod) "patterns" were not actually designed, but were up to the yards and individual ships to apply. You will need photos, since no pattern sheet is available. Photos can be found here: http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/60b.htm

Kostas' Alabama reminded me of a youtube video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90l4P-N0-lk i love how majestic the Sodak cuts through the water. I'm well aware the video has Nagato in it too and most of the shoot belongs to it but still even if Sodak is shown for a few seconds is a great short footage of the battleship..


Jose

Aptivaboy,

There was a show on the discovery channel called Wings about 15 years ago that profiled an aircraft in each episode. On the show featuring the Kingfisher (I think), a float plane was water taxiing IVO Norfolk and in the background is what looks like a green camo'd SoDak class battleship. This is after the green battleship myth was refuted. It may have been how the color film was processed, but the ship looked to be in green camo to me.

Ed

Hello, I have planned the construction of the USS Massachusetts in 1/700. The building was in fact in 1946?
I have the PE-Set "WWS USN Battleship Tittings Set" from GMM. Specified for Massachusetts dind radar Sk Jun 44-Sep 45 and radar SC Jul 42-Jun 44. In Breyers Book looks Massachusetts from 1945 with SC-2 and SK-2.

Jörg

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http://www.modellmarine.de

Current Project:

French Navy Antiaircraft Cruiser Colbert C 611,1964, 1/700

If I were to build Indy, what kit is the best starting point? I'd want to do early career MS15 but I believe the bridge is different than that of the Alabama kit from Trumpeter?

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Hi all,
Just a quick question. I am in the planning stages of a Nov '42 SoDak and I am trying to figure out which radars she carried at this time. I am no radar aficianado, so pardon my ignorance. Any help would be appreciated, as I am not having any luck searching my usual sources.

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Cap'n Price

Fitting out:
1/350 USS Saratoga 1936

On the ways:
1/72 Gato

using the information from this table:
http://polyticks.com/bbma/quad40s.htm

and this well known photo:



it seems like the photo was January '43 and the AA fit would look something like this:



Does this seem to be correct?
Paul

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http://paulbudzik.com/current-projects/Neptune/Lockheed_Neptune_Model_Budzik.html
http://paulbudzik.com/tools-techniques/outside_the_box.html

Try this photo from Navsource: http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/015716.jpg
SoDak would have had the SC air search on the foremast, SG at the front of the air defense platform surrounding the forward main director, FD (also known as MK-4) on each of the 4 MK-37 AA directors, and FC (also known as MK-3) on the two MK-38 (main battery) directors.