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Which were the best 1930's pre-war battleships built?
Poll ended at Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:55 am
King George V class (Britain) 17%  17%  [ 4 ]
Jean Bart class (France) 13%  13%  [ 3 ]
Bismarck class (Germany) 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
Vittorio Veneto class (Italy) 9%  9%  [ 2 ]
North Carolina class (United States) 13%  13%  [ 3 ]
South Dakota class (United States} 43%  43%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 23
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 1:36 pm 
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[quote="navydavesofSHOW IT!!![/quote]
Found them:
Weapons/Radar:
6-16"/45 - 2 triple turrets forward
1-Mk41 VLS - Multi Launcher
4-Mk42 5"/54 - 2 single each side (RoF 40 R/M per broadside)
7-Bread 40mm twin turrets (3 forward, 2 aft, 4 Broadside)
7-GAU-8 Avenger 30mm AMS with modified mounts for below deck reloading (3 forward, 4 aft, 4 Broadside)
4-Mk15 Phalanx AMS (2 each direction)
1-SPS-48 Long Range 3D Air search radar
1-SPQ-9 gun director froward (on top of bridge)
3-SPG-55 missile illuminators (1 forward, 2 aft - 2 SM2-MR missiles forward, 4 aft, 6 broadside per salvo + as available from escorts)
3 SH-60 Sea Hawk LAMPS (in modified former seaplane hanger)


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Alabama B.JPG
Alabama B.JPG [ 70.1 KiB | Viewed 15265 times ]
Alabama Deck.JPG
Alabama Deck.JPG [ 60.65 KiB | Viewed 15265 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:59 pm 
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Off the top of anyone's head...could anyone please name any differences between Alabama and Indiana?

So aside from alligator/crocodile bow on the Hasegawa Sodak kits that some complain about without end on and off those kits' reviews, could one technically build the Hasegawa Alabama as the Indiana? Or is Indiana closer to South Dakota than the latter two in the class?

Indiana seems particularly interesting to me since she was the only one in the class who sported the MS 32/11D camouflage.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:05 pm 
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A major difference with SODAK was the elimination of two 5" mounts to allow for additional flag ship and staff spaces.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:58 pm 
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Fliger747 wrote:
A major difference with SODAK was the elimination of two 5" mounts to allow for additional flag ship and staff spaces.


I was already well aware of the "flagship" difference between SODAK and her other 3 sisters to begin with. If you read the post, you would see I was asking about the differences between Alabama and Indiana in particular.

You know what, I'll just go and buy that Warships Pictorial Book on this class of ships instead...though I'm prepared for the huge possibility of not finding anything useful if the book turns out to be just a collection of stock photographs one can already find on Navsource. sigh.

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Last edited by Haijun watcher on Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:50 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:17 am 
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Indiana was an interesting combination of AL and MA. with a little SD thrown in for good measure. Her Vents where different for one thing- (mainly the ones up forward behind the breakwater and the ones aft of TIII) then ya have that AL lost both her boat cranes and MA and IN kept the stbd crane. AL and IN have the same shape funnel cap (though I think they are slightly different) while MA and SD are different there. there are some big differences in the bridge structure-
Im building the Indiana in 1/96th- as in 1944... mainly because I like paint scheme. If you go to www.warshipmodelsunderway.com and look under the build forum- I may have pointed out more differences there- I just cant remember them off the top of my head
BTW- Steve Wipers book is an excellent book for the class-
Brad


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:55 pm 
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AFAIK, Indiana and Alabama can be easily distinguished by cranes on the superstructure rearward of the 5" mounts. Alabama had none throughout her entire career. Other SoDaks did. Maybe I'm wrong, but my input to pay it forward for my next question lol.

Where on the forecastle did the 2 paravane chains attach when not in use? I'd imagine an open bit or something. Can't find any pics.

Thanks!

Kyle

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:22 am 
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Gents,

I noticed that there are actually 2 Hasegawa 1/700 USS Alabama kits out there.

One seems has the number 49608. (with ship's name behind a brown background on the box)

The other has the number 44121. (with the ship's name behind a blue background on the box)

Is the 44121 a new retool or is it the same kit as the 49608 kit? And thus has had the "crocodile bow" issue fixed?

(It probably just says 608 on the box and 121 on the other box)

I assume the 608 is the older one; it seems to be the one most common on Ebay.

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Last edited by Haijun watcher on Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:26 am 
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Hasegawa has not retooled its South Dakota class kits. All are as originally produced.

(why not just get the Trumpeter one?)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:30 am 
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Timmy C wrote:
Hasegawa has not retooled its South Dakota class kits. All are as originally produced.

(why not just get the Trumpeter one?)


I did buy the Trumpeter South Dakota kit the previous Boxing Day.

I am just undecided what to do with my unbuilt Hasegawa Alabama 608 kit now that I don't want it. The fact that this kit is now so numerous on Ebay as well means it will be nearly impossible to sell.

Perhaps it would have been better if I hadn't read those damning reviews of the Hasegawa Sodak kits and their complaints about the Crocodile bow...ignorance was bliss.

I remember my mouth watering over wanting to buy those Hasegawa kits when I was still growing up in Asia, before my family even immigrated to Canada.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:09 pm 
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If you're feeling adventurous, you can hop down into the What-if forum and browse the modernized SoDak thread for some ideas ;)

Or you can build it as-is, and give it to a friend as a gift or something so it's not there at the corner of your eye screaming, 'fix me fix me!'

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:42 pm 
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Which Trumpeter 1:350 scale kit is better for a 1944-1945 BB-60 USS Alabama, the Trumpeter Alabama kit or the new Massachusetts 1946 kit? I realize both will require work, thanks in advance. :wave_1:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:36 pm 
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task force 58 wrote:
Which Trumpeter 1:350 scale kit is better for a 1944-1945 BB-60 USS Alabama, the Trumpeter Alabama kit or the new Massachusetts 1946 kit? I realize both will require work, thanks in advance. :wave_1:


If you read the review for the Trumpeter 1/350 Alabama, it says there that this kit is supposed to depict the ship in 1942 refit. Perhaps the Trumpeter 1/350 1946 Mass. kit might be closer.

excerpt from the review:
Quote:
this one is based on her 1942 Atlantic configuration. It should not be hard to convert this ship to other eras.

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Last edited by Haijun watcher on Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:46 pm 
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Thanks will look into some books and such on Alabama to check.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:50 am 
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Hi all,

I was wondering if Trumpeter's 1/700 Alabama kit is intended to depict the ship in in early war (like on the box art) or is merely a re-box of the Trumpeter Massachusetts or South Dakota kits?

There is no review for the 1/700 Trumpeter Alabama in the reviews section, though there is one for the 1/350 version.

The only related post I could find in a search was this, but it only talks about the 1/350 version:

NOVA73 wrote:
The trumpeter kit MASSACHUSETTS represents the ship in 1942 or 43. KIT for Alabama represents the ship in 1945 in its post conflict release.

I intend to use the KIT Flyhawkmodel for alabama modifying it to make a BB-59 end of conflict is 22.

Best regards.

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Last edited by Haijun watcher on Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:04 pm 
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This scan of the last page on the instructions should give you a good idea: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10113160z9/70/9

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:26 pm 
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MartinJQuinn wrote:
LIFE image of South Dakota at the Philadelphia Naval Yard in 1942: http://images.google.com/hosted/life/c9 ... 2ae6f.html


Sorry for the thread necromancy, but as I was just perusing my BB kits, I noticed that both the Trumpeter SoDak is in its 1944 outfit.

And I need it to be in its 1942 outfit, pre-Guadalcanal.

And, I have noticed very little in this thread that mentions it during that period....

This photo is nice to have, But.... It looks like there is an AA platform on the front of Turret #1.... What gives?

Does anyone have a plan of the AA outfit on the SoDak for the latter half of 1942 into early 1943?

Also, this photo looks like she has some form of Ms.12mod. Is that the case?

Are there any illustrations of what that pattern actually is (so I don't have to fake it)?

MB

Edit: Navsource shows the following AA configurations for theSoDak:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/57a.htm

Photos # 19 - 24, showing her in the Summer (June/July) of 1942 (The photos were too large to post.

http://navsource.org/archives/01/057/015705.jpg
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/015701.jpg
http://navsource.org/archives/01/057/015701c.jpg
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/015734.jpg
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/015717.jpg
http://navsource.org/archives/01/057/015749a.jpg



She looks to have two 20mms P/S on the bow; Three each on Turrets B, C; three each, P/S, next to turret B; 3 each, P/S, next to the aft Superstructure/deck housing foreward of Turret C; it looks like 2 more, P/S, just above the aft 3, P/S; ... and maybe a few more on the superstructure forward (I can't tell from the photos.

And, it looks like the larger AA are Quad 1.1" (I did not realize that these are actually .75 cal.), mounted in the upper forward superstructure, P/S; on the aft superstructure center; and two on the fantail (as shown in the last photo: #24)

Would these be the same as at Santa Cruz, and Guadalcanal?

Looking down the Navsource photos..... It looks like she had some photos added between Summer of 42 and the Fall of 1942.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/015716.jpg

But this photo of her in November of '42 (After Guadalcanal), shows some Quad 40mms on the P/S forward deckhouse (where the #9 & #10 5"/38 turrets would have been), but it still looks like she has the Quad 1.1" in the superstructure, and on the center aft superstructure behind Turret C... I can't tell if the fantail still has the Quad 1.1" or Twin 40MMs, though.

So, she obviously had additional AA added at Puget Sound, or on the West Coast somewhere, before heading to the South Pacific Theatre.

She is my favorite USN BB, and I want to get her right. She will also be my first ship to rig (but that won't happen till next spring at this rate).

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1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:21 pm 
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Hi Matthew,
You are correct in seeing both 1.1" guns and 40 mm on the South Dakota at the time of the photo. The photo was taken sometime after October 30, 1942 and shows the SD after her collision with the USS Mahan on October 30. The SD was sent to the South Pacific in early September 1942 and upon entering the harbor at Tonga ran aground causing significant damage. She was sent to Pearl Harbor for repairs and did not return to the South pacific until early October. While at PHNY she had two of the 1.1" mounts removed, the ones near the stern and four quad 40 mm mounts added, two on the stern in tubs and two on the 01 deck level either side of the bridge (very clear in the photo you linked). She retained five 1.1" mounts, the two on the bridge level and the three in the structure forward of the No. three turret. She had this configuration until repaired after the November action. Based on the photos of her repairs after the November battle she was probably in over all Navy Blue, 5N, probably having been repainted from the Measure 12M during the repairs at PHNY in September.

SD probably had around 36 20 mm at this time, six near the bow, three on turret No. 2, three (6 total) either side of turret No. 2 on the main deck, three (6 total) on each side of the midship superstructure where the boats were, four (8 total) on the main deck either side of the aft superstructure, three on top of turret No. 3, and two (4 total) on the main deck each side aft of turret No. 3. There may have been two additional 20 mm in the forward superstructure on platforms around the port and starboard MK 37 directors, one gun each side. So that would make 38 if those are added. The 36 number is pretty clear in the photo taken after the collision in October.

She retained her boat cranes until the repairs after November. The cranes had search lights and paltforms on them. She would have had the original main mast location during 1942. The main mast was changed during her refit after November. it was moved forward and attached to the back of the funnel. The original mast was aft of the funnel and separated being supported by a platform like a three legged stool.

Hope this helps.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 5:27 am 
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Frank Fowler wrote:
Hi Matthew,
You are correct in seeing both 1.1" guns and 40 mm on the South Dakota at the time of the photo. The photo was taken sometime after October 30, 1942 and shows the SD after her collision with the USS Mahan on October 30. The SD was sent to the South Pacific in early September 1942 and upon entering the harbor at Tonga ran aground causing significant damage. She was sent to Pearl Harbor for repairs and did not return to the South pacific until early October. While at PHNY she had two of the 1.1" mounts removed, the ones near the stern and four quad 40 mm mounts added, two on the stern in tubs and two on the 01 deck level either side of the bridge (very clear in the photo you linked). She retained five 1.1" mounts, the two on the bridge level and the three in the structure forward of the No. three turret. She had this configuration until repaired after the November action. Based on the photos of her repairs after the November battle she was probably in over all Navy Blue, 5N, probably having been repainted from the Measure 12M during the repairs at PHNY in September.

SD probably had around 36 20 mm at this time, six near the bow, three on turret No. 2, three (6 total) either side of turret No. 2 on the main deck, three (6 total) on each side of the midship superstructure where the boats were, four (8 total) on the main deck either side of the aft superstructure, three on top of turret No. 3, and two (4 total) on the main deck each side aft of turret No. 3. There may have been two additional 20 mm in the forward superstructure on platforms around the port and starboard MK 37 directors, one gun each side. So that would make 38 if those are added. The 36 number is pretty clear in the photo taken after the collision in October.

She retained her boat cranes until the repairs after November. The cranes had search lights and paltforms on them. She would have had the original main mast location during 1942. The main mast was changed during her refit after November. it was moved forward and attached to the back of the funnel. The original mast was aft of the funnel and separated being supported by a platform like a three legged stool.

Hope this helps.


I knew the Trumpeter SoDak was going to have some work to do with the conversion from her Late-war to Early-war outfit. It looks like all of it is doable. I am going to have to scratch build a few things. So, I need to get to planning for those now.

The AA Guns... No problem. I have almost 200 of the Nano-Dread 20mm Oerlikons, and both 1.1" and 40mm AA guns as well (although maybe only ¼ of the number of Oerlikon guns).

And, building splinter-shielding is pretty easy (or altering the PE Splinter Shielding.

Obviously, I will not be building the three 40mm tubs on the Bow. And the cranes and Mast will need to be re-built.

Thanks for the help. I can probably prepare an outline now of the various materials I need to gather to get all of this taken care of.

MB

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1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:35 pm 
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South Dakota Barbettes?

Were the barbettes completely smooth?

All images seem to suggest so.

But I cannot find any images of the SoDak's Barbettes at the base, or where they met the deck.

Did they have any sorts of details at the deck (A ring around the barbette to cover the edge of the planking around the Barbette? A set of grommets or wedges, like we see on other ship barbettes?)?

Any help would be appreciated.

I am in the process of modeling new parts for a 1942 USS South Dakota to be 3D printed, so that people can build her for the Solomons, and the Second Naval Battle of Guadalcanal, where she can again help kick the snot out of the IJN(HIJMS) Kirishima.

MB

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Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:54 pm 
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If one were to get up close and personal to the Barbett armor you would probably encounter a somewhat irregular surface. This would vary somewhat depending on the armor vendor. For example Missouri has much rougher armor than her sisters. By modeling standards it is "smooth". The wooden deck around the Barbett will scarf into a curved sectioned piece, much like around hatch coatings and bulkheads.

Nice photos!


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