Calling All Deutschland-class (WW2 Panzerschiffe) Fans

[Jefgte]

1/350 Kit Reviews
* Academy 1/350th Graf Spee
* Trumpeter 1/350th Graf Spee

1/350 Detail Reviews
* BMK 1/350 15cm/55 Brass Barrel for Trumpeter's Graf Spee
* BMK 1/350 28cm/52 Brass Barrels for Trumpeter's Graf Spee
* BMK 1/350 15cm/55 Brass Barrel for Academy's Graf Spee
* BMK 1/350 28cm/52 Brass Barrels for Academy's Graf Spee

1/700 Kit Reviews
* Fujimi 1/700 Deutschland

Gallery
* 1/350 Admiral Graf Spee 1934 (ISW) by Kym Knight
* 1/400 DKM Graf Spee (Heller) by Benedetto Iezzi
* 1/400 Graf Spee (Heller) by Mario Grima
* 1/400 Graf Spee (Heller) by Erick Navas
* 1/400 DKM Admiral Scheer (Heller) by Edward Pinniger
* 1/400 DKM Admiral Scheer (Lee) by Bill Keough
* 1/600 Admiral Graf Spee (Airfix) by Steve Power
* 1/700 Admiral Graf Spee (Fujimi) by Dhitii Norasedthirakul
* 1/700 Graf Spee (Fujimi) by Paul Helfrich
* 1/720 DKM Deutschland (Italeri) by Kostas-Katseas

Online References:
Deutschland/Lützow
* Deutschland/Lützow - Deutschland-Class.dk
* Deutschland/Lützow - Wikipedia

Admiral Scheer
* Admiral Scheer - Deutschland-Class.dk
* German pocket battleship Admiral Scheer - Wikipedia

Graf Spee
* Admiral Graf Spee - Deutschland-Class.dk
* Admiral Graf Spee (Armored Ship, 1936-1939) - US Navy History & Heritage Command Site
* German pocket battleship Admiral Graf Spee - Wikipedia

Added by Tracy

German built 3 "Panzerschiffs"
These 3 are raiders.
So, its possible to made also much protected Panzerschiff for Baltic & North Sea operations

"A"Pocket Battleship
Last year, I SpringSharp a "A" Pocket Battleship for Baltic & North Sea.

Laid down 1928
12245 tons st - 13253 tons full load
169x23.6x6.17
2T3x280
2T3x150
4T2x88
8x37
8x20
Belt 50/280
Bulkhead 40
Deck 100
Turrets 280/100/280
34400Shp-24kts-4000nm/14kts

Here is 1/700wl Scratchbuilt
Photos with Graf Spee - 1/700 wl





Calling All Deutschland, A Scheer, Graf Spee models Fans!

[Gunner59]

Back at the tail end of WWI the US Navy started to build the heavy cruisers. The previous armored cruiser class was dead, the battlecruisers had killed that class of ship off. So the USN used the CA designation for the new treaty cruisers.

The Deutschland class were the last armored cruisers. They were well armored and had great guns.

The German designers did a great job on the limited displacement they were given. Also, the treaty that limited Germany to 10K tons did a great job of limiting the ultimate size of the ships. Yes, the Germans cheated on the treaty. However, even they knew there was a limit to the obvious cheating. The Deutschland would have been a fantastic design if the weight had been bumped up to 20,000 tons and had three turrets with 11" guns. The treaty killed that ship design in the cradle.

I look at the design study of the 280 mm and 203 mm armed "improved Deutschland" as a possible 1930s version of a pre-dreadnought. I think it was a wonderful idea.

BTW, I'm trying to get a hull from that German company, Modelblau (sp?). I can scratch build the superstructure of Spee but don't care on making hulls.

Best of luck.

[Werner]

Back at the tail end of WWI the US Navy started to build the heavy cruisers. The previous armored cruiser class was dead, the battlecruisers had killed that class of ship off. So the USN used the CA designation for the new treaty cruisers.

As an aside, during WW.I and up to 1919 the USA did not have any plans to build armored cruisers, although the battlecruisers could be considered the US idea of an armored cruiser.

The Pensacola is built to a specification which was not part of the original US plan, but which became standard after the Washington Treaty. Because they were not armored cruisers, they were originally typed "CL" for light cruisers. The CA designation for heavy cruisers was erected in 1931 to separate 8-inch and 6-inch cruisers following the London Conference in 1930.

General Board specifications make clear the ideal USN cruiser would be between 20,000 and 25,000 tons and would be armed with 12 x 8-inch or 9 x 10 inch guns. The 10-inch design became, after several revisions, the 12-inch Alaska, a satisfactory heavy cruiser for 1940, never a battlecruiser.

Real war experience demonstrated the futility of the 8-inch bag gun, and the ultimate cruiser - USS Des Moines was designed, able to fire over 100 8-inch rounds a minute. If this ship had been built in any quantity, it would be remembered as the ultimate gun ship, able to destroy anything afloat or ashore in a few moments.

[Avery Boyer]

I have attempted to build a card model of the Graf Spee that I downloaded from a Uruguayan modeling site, but it didn't work out. I was thinking a transfering the designs to sheet plastic. Does anyone know where online I could find the exact specifications for her?

TIA

[ddp]

Avery, read this.
http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/index.html

[Laurence Batchelor]

Avery, read this.
http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/index.html

I'd take some of those words with a pinch of salt!

"the Kriegsmarine surface units archived some spectacular victories against the British Royal Fleet......the surface units did not prove to be effective in the the second half of the war. Caused by fuel restrictions, the wrong naval construction politics and and several operational restrictions ordered by the political leadership, the Kriegsmarine surface units were not able continue their successes of 1939-1941"

I don't think its fare to say that as by 1941 the Germans had lost Blucher, Graf Spee, Bismarck , 10 Destroyers at Narvik and they had lost some more destroyers also off the top of my head.

I don't remember in surface actions their forecs ever acheiving great things against the Royal Navy in direct action apart from sinking Hood up to 1941. Scharnhorst and Gneisenau where a major thorn in the RN's side though but to merchant shipping.

[Antonio Bonomi]

Ciao all,

here my ones :

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Ciao Antonio

[urtch]

What's the best Graf Spee model in 1/700?

[Antonio Bonomi]

Ciao all,

ITALERI on 1 / 720,.. by far superior to either Fujimi, or Matchbox,....

Ciao Antonio

[Filipe Ramires]

Hi disagree Antonio!!

I find Graf Spee or Deutschland (I own both) from Fujimi better detailed then the Italeri brothers. The Matchbox one barely plays in the same league!!!

[Antonio Bonomi]

Ciao Felipe and all,

... and I accept your opinion my friend,..

.... we do not have the same one but that is perfectly ok for me

.. surely we have same opinion on the Matchbox kit,...

.. but to tell you the truth I found both of them largely inferior to the level of quality now kits reach on that scale.

Fujimi seems to me ' too fat ' .. like a '' pregnant '' ship, .. some details are very poor.
Italeri is not much better either, just the overall look seems a bit better.

Problem is that all of them only make Panzerschiffe with the straight bow, .. so the early years ( only Graf Spee remained like that ),.. in both cases Scheer and Graf Spee are same kit, .. they just forget about the differences.

The most important career of Lutzow ( former ex Panzerschiffe Deutschland ) and Admiral Scheer occurred with the bow modified with the atlantic bow and the raked funnel cap (see Heller on scale 1/400), lot more A/A guns etc etc.

That is why you need to buy other kits and '' cannibalize '' them if you allow me that bad word, ... so taking pieces from Tamiya Scharnhorst, Gneisenau or Prinz Eugen Kits and from Trumpeter Tirpitz-Bismarck.

Doing that you have better base parts,... than add the photo etched parts,.. using correct reference drawings and camo schemes, ... and you can make super detailed Panzerschiffe ...

Ciao Antonio

[PetrOs]

Why to cannibalize other kits? There is PE-Flak on the market, which is much nicer anyways..

[Antonio Bonomi]

Ciao all,

just take a look here in :

http://forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php?topic=4435


.. and thank again Abram for his hard work.

Ciao Antonio

[Edward Pinniger]

I've a question about the paint scheme of Graf Spee at the time of the River Plate battle in 1939. (I'm currently building the Airfix 1/600 kit, and definitely intend to build the Heller 1/400 in future as well)

I seem to remember hearing recently that the camouflage (grey or dark green disruptive camo on the vertical surfaces of the superstructure and turret) is actually a myth, originating from the box art of a plastic kit in the 1960s (maybe the Airfix one?) and perpetuated by artists and modellers ever since. Is this true or not? I know this sort of thing has happened a few times in the past, with aircraft and tanks as well as ships.

One other Graf Spee question: Airfix's kit includes a plaque on the front of the bridge structure, inscribed "Coronel" (presumably referring to the WW1 battle in which Admiral Graf Spee fought). It seems a bit large to me - overscale or not? And would the plaque have been painted differently to the rest of the ship?

[MartinJQuinn]

I seem to remember hearing recently that the camouflage (grey or dark green disruptive camo on the vertical surfaces of the superstructure and turret) is actually a myth, originating from the box art of a plastic kit in the 1960s (maybe the Airfix one?) and perpetuated by artists and modellers ever since. Is this true or not? I know this sort of thing has happened a few times in the past, with aircraft and tanks as well as ships.

The camo was there. Click here for pictures. The myth is that it was green. It was most likely Dunklegrau 51 (the hull color) and Dunklegrau 2 (the color of the steel decks) over the base superstructure color of Hellgrau 50.