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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2022 7:35 pm 
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I am returning to a 1/350 Pyotr Velickiy model that I started 9 years ago and left incomplete on the shelf ever since. 9 years ago I gathered a several websites which contained comprehensive photos of the interior of the kirov class helicopter hangar. Some of these sites are gone, the photo links in the remaining sites seems mostly seem to be broken now after 9 years. One or two have photos in flash format which apparently is no longer supported on most browsers. I kick myself for not downloading those photos and archiving them.

Acasual web search did not turn up any new photos showing good views of hangar interior, only glimpses seen down the elevator well.

I am interested in capturing the Kirov hangar interior accurately because the helicopter handling arrangement is unique and highly mechanized. It reminds me of some implausibly elaborate mad scientist lair contraption concocted by Hollywood.

Does anyone know of any good photos of the kirov class hangar interior, or illustrations of the mechanisms?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:22 am 
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I can help. A while back I downloaded all of the hangar photos I could find. Contact me offboard and I can get them to you.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 3:10 am 
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It appears the Pyotr Velickiy has a UNREP Stanchion on the port side between the boat davits and the crane next to the superstructure. Trumpeter totally missed it. Does anyone know of any pictures showing that stanchions clearly?

My guess is it would be very similar to the UNREP stanchions on Udaloy and Slava. But I like to confirm if possible.

Also, does anyone know of any clear picture of the midship area around the crane? I suspect there is some kind of support canteilevered out from the superstructure tfor the crane arm to rest on, instead of letting the crane arm hang in the air even when not in use. I want to confirm.

Thanks

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 9:22 am 
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One of the pictures here is quite clearly showing the crane stowage as well as the RAS gear.
https://www.rbth.com/defence/2017/07/06/5-facts-about-russias-massive-surface-combatant-naval-warships_796690

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2022 9:38 am 
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Thank you, that’s very helpful.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2022 2:00 pm 
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there are conflicting information on the web regarding the variable depth sonar Slava carries. Some say they carried horse tail VDS. Others say they carried mare tail VDS. I personally think it is unlikely that they carry horse tail VDS for the following reasons:
1, horsetail VDS is a usual in that it is built like a circular saucer rather than a torpedo shaped towed body. So it is probably exceptionally wide for a variable depth sonar. Slava’s VDS doors Are distinctly narrower than those aboard kirov or udaloy, ships known for certain to have horsetail VDS.
2. other ships known to carry the horse tail VDS the horsetail are all fitted with very large hull mounted sonar In their bulbous forefoot’s. the Slava has only a small bulb.
So my guess is the Slava’s have only a mare tail VDS


Does anyone know of any photos showing what the towed body for the mare tail VDS look like? What other ships also carry the mare tail VDS?

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:17 am 
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Slava indeed has a smaller version. I probably have what you are looking for.
It's been a long while since I've been busy with this kind of thing, 10 years or so ago you could have gotten me into digging this mistery out for you...

I believe the smaller ASW units, like Krivak class also had Mare Tail. Not entirely sure, but I believe the good old Moskva helicopter carriers also had it. Those were more exposed below their helo deck aft, so you can find some good shots of that system.

I'll have to dig up an old hard drive for that.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 12:58 am 
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Here are 200 pages of Project 1144 material
the site also works well with google translate

https://forums.airbase.ru/2022/08/t2008 ... .6645.html


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 5:47 am 
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Dug out that harddrive. I believe this is what you're looking for. Not very good, I know, but the best there is to find I guess. Not sure of the authenticity of the picture though, I believe they played with the lighting balance to make things more clear, but might have just PS'ed a different interior on top of it alltogether...
What is visible is that it doesn't match with what I have for the Krivak, as the aft fins of the Slava VDS have a vertical stabilizer, which is lacking on the Krivak's. However the pictures I have of Krivak are for Krivak I, I believe Mare Tail was only introduced on Krivak II...

The davit/launch device on Slava does look a lot like the one for the Krivak, including the lower doors. I posted the Krivak stuff here, not to clutter this topic.
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=34726&p=1009688#p1009688


Attachments:
VDSSlava.jpg
VDSSlava.jpg [ 279.31 KiB | Viewed 118 times ]

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:45 am 
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Thank you.

From what can be seen, the rear of the sonar towed body in the Slava looks very similar to the towed body shown in your photos of the Krivak, except for small vertical fins on the horizontal fin.

The ex-Minsk was turned into a tourist trap theme park for a while in China. On board an identical or at least very similar VDS towed body was turned upside down and put on display amidst parked aircraft. Photos of that VDS exhibit is easy to find on the web. The theme park is apparently closed and the ex-Minsk now appears to be a derelict hulk marooned in a land locked lake somewhere in China. The aircraft parked on deck are now gone, but the sonar towed body is apparently still there.

The ex-Kiev was also turned into a museum in China. It appears to have fared much better and is apparently still in good shape. An identical sonar towed body can apparently be seen in its deployment cradle inside the VDS compartment, See here https://www.flickr.com/photos/147661871 ... otostream/


I think those fins seen in your photo represent a minor hydrodynmaic change that does not necessarily indicate any more substantive difference. So they do not necessarily indicate Slava had a different sonar. The Slava class post date Krivak and early Kiev by a few years. It seem possible that minor hydrodynamic improvements were introduced to the same model of sonar towed body over the elapsed years.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:49 am 
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An interesting note I found while researching other ships that may have the same VDS as the Slava, The Kara class apparently do not have conical indentation under its stern that is seen on Slava, Udaloy and Kirov classes, despite having VDS. So that indentation is not perfectly correlated with the need to deploy a sonar towed body while underway. So either the Russians haven’t discovered the merit of the indentation yet while they were designing the Kara, or the indentation actually serves a different purpose then smoothing water flow for the VDS

There following observation suggest to me the indentation indeed serves a different purpose than help water flow for VDS. . Unlike most ship’s boats, which has a V shaped bottom or a flat bottom, The small powered speed boat like boat carried on most larger Russian surface ships also has a similar indentation on the bottom near the stern.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2022 10:56 am 
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Looking at a close-up of the Moskva class helo carrier, it appears she also has the exact same VDS as the Krivak I (considering the years of construction, that doesn't come as a surprise).

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An interesting note I found while researching other ships that may have the same VDS as the Slava, The Kara class apparently do not have conical indentation under its stern that is seen on Slava, Udaloy and Kirov classes, despite having VDS. So that indentation is not perfectly correlated with the need to deploy a sonar towed body while underway. So either the Russians haven’t discovered the merit of the indentation yet while they were designing the Kara, or the indentation actually serves a different purpose then smoothing water flow for the VDS

There following observation suggest to me the indentation indeed serves a different purpose than help water flow for VDS. . Unlike most ship’s boats, which has a V shaped bottom or a flat bottom, The small powered speed boat like boat carried on most larger Russian surface ships also has a similar indentation on the bottom near the stern.


Valid point. I also recently noticed the same "indentation" on the stern of merchant ships, notably a container ship and a RoRo vessel. Although I do not know what was their configuration below the waterline, it might actually have to do with the single rudder configuration, which also most Soviet ships seemed to have. It doesn't explain why Kirovs have it though... It also starts behind the rudder rather than having the rudder in the indentation.
Not sure when they actually introduced it. The shape of the indentation is also rather special, in some cases rather smooth and wide, in others, like Neustrashimiy, very sharp/deep, flanked by the twin rudders, while in case of Kirov the rudders are still some distance away from the indentation.

What it might have to do with is either course stability (instead of a skeg between the props) or to avoid slamming in rough seas, where wide flat aft ships tend to get punched pretty hard.

For now I can confirm:

Ships that don't have it:
-Grisha
-Nanuchka
-Kanin
-Krivak I to III
-Sovremenny
-Moskva
-Kapusta
-Nedelin

Ships that have it:
- Neustrashimy
- Udaloy
- Slava
- Kirov

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 2:49 am 
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I also checked the Kresta en Kara class, who indeed don't have the indent either. The Kara class does have the bulbous shapes above the propellors, same shape as Krivak III's.

These features may also be design bureau related. Soviets had a lot of design bureaus, while construction was spread across the different yards. There doesn't appear to be any correlation between yard and features. I do not know who designed which vessel though. Easier to find for Soviet subs than for surface combattants.

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