Calling all Atlanta-class & Oakland-class (CL-51) fans

[Steve]

I am undertaking OTB style completions of my four older Pit Road and Dragon Atlanta kits as they saw service in '42-'43 and into '45.

I have the first group details all set as before they traded in their 1.1's. The VEE San Diego brings the group up to date with the AA outfit. Rick posted the comparison needed to validate the AA arrangement. (many thanks Mr. Davis)

I have two Dragon USS Oakland kits and want to do the first as this group went out to the Pacific before they lost their P/S pair of 5" mounts and the TT tubes, etc. My question is where were the 40mm twin and quad mounts located? I see options that there may be as many as 4 quad mounts but believe there may be only one and the rest were twins. My second build would reflect replacing some of the 40mm twins with quads and the removal of the P/S wing 5" mounts. Here I'm really in need of guidance.

Although I could do another version in the max AA outfit but am lacking only the extra parts for the square bridge and would have to do another armor belt modification (got the four I need done years ago).

FYI my choice for plastic 40mm and 20mm mounts is Tamiya . Less bulky and require no multi piece assembly. PE in 1/700 scale not my thing.

[Dick J]

San Diego and San Juan only had quad 40MM on the fantail. The Oakland's were built with 8 twins, but after the tubes were removed, the after 4 twins were replaced by quads - fantail, back of the after superstructure, and replacing the twins that were just aft of the TT locations. This mod was eventually done on all but Flint in the Oakland group.

[Steve]

San Diego and San Juan only had quad 40MM on the fantail. The Oakland's were built with 8 twins, but after the tubes were removed, the after 4 twins were replaced by quads - fantail, back of the after superstructure, and replacing the twins that were just aft of the TT locations. This mod was eventually done on all but Flint in the Oakland group.

Dick - Other than the Oakland was the AA arrangement on the stern of this group one or two twin 40's each in a separate tub plus the typical two single 20's? Was each pair of 40's provided with a dedicated Mk 51 director? If there is a clear photo of this arrangement a link would be appreciated.

The Dragon Oakland appears to be correct for the location of the quad and twin 40's (4 of each).

[Rick E Davis]

They only had either one twin or one quad 40-mm on the fantail during their careers.

There is a nice stern aerial view on Navsource dating from 1946 towards the bottom of the page for USS OAKLAND (CL-95), showing the quad 40-mm installation.

... https://www.navsource.org/archives/04/095/04095.htm ...

[Fliger747]

The San Diego photo is interesting with crew lining the rails as the aft 5" mount appears to have an USMC crew. This was good for AA efficiency as it engendered competition between crews. She also sports a crow's nest on the foremast, an interesting feature and the radar seems partially airbrushed? It's sort of there. Good info!

[raggs]

Tom,

Here's good little read on AA during WWII. Marines DID occupy AA batteries. Good story by a well educated proficient gent. Enjoy.

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/rep ... index.html

Paul

[Fliger747]

Thanks Raggs!

I always had a warm spot for the Marines as they taught me to shoot and even recently I have won a number of rifle and pistol matches. My dad attended an AA school at Miami before being shipped off to Okinawa, interesting article Thanks again!

Cheers: Tom

[Tom Cervo]

Preorders being taken, apparently.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/175449324982?h ... BMnqnP3vxg

[ESzczesniak]

I'm looking to build the Very Fire 1/350 Atlanta as USS Sand Diego in Ms 32/24D. I was wondering if any of the experts could highlight the differences?

I know she went through a AA upgrade and some changed with the after 40 mm mount. But I haven't found a much of a clear list of what was different.

Also if anyone recommends any good resources for either San-Diego specifically, or the Atlanta class in general, I'd love to hear the recommendations.

[Timmy C]

Navsource's page for San Diego has a number of high-quality photos showing her at Mare Island, so lots of clear details.

The biggest structural difference would be the bridge area: solid bulwarks above and below the portholes instead of railings. They have wind deflectors built in, which can be tricky to add, especially if you want to them to be consistent with the molded ones on the side bulwarks that they'll be connected to.

AA replacements are as you note: the 1.1" would be replaced by 40mm. One quad on the fantail, and duals on the aft and forward superstructures. An extra 20mm gun and its tub should be added right in front and below the bridge, superfiring the third 5" mount. An extra pair of 20mm and their tubs should be added to the deck above the two adjacent the aft funnel. All 20mm should have the Mk 14 computing gunsight rather than the old ring-and-stick sights that come in the kit.

Radars: the search radar on top of the forward mast would be the SC-2 instead of the SC-1 that's in the kit. The Deluxe version of the kit includes PE Mk 12 + Mk 22 "orange peel" antennas for the fire control directors, but it looks like those should be just the Mk 4 even for the late war.

Midships between the funnels: no boats, and thus no boat cranes either. Not sure what filled the deck space other than floater net baskets along the edges.

Searchlights: those on the corner tubs on the funnels should be removed, as well as the tubs themselves. They were repositioned to in front and aft of the aft funnel platform along the centreline.

[ModelMonkey]

Good eye, Tim.

Kraken is working on a San Diego bridge. Facebook link: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=572357738229936

[ESzczesniak]

Thank you both!

[KevinD]

Hopefully the kit is more accurate than the box art.

That is, assuming that the box art is meant to depict Atlanta's last action, she is firing off the 'wrong' side. After all. her final action was to port.

EDIT. Add Atlanta Battle Damage schematic.

[daveseas]

The one point on this class is not addressed from what I have read is the added weight to the class in regard to the increase of AA weapons and personnel. Friedman noted this with this class, from 43 onward the righting arm of these class was boarder line, more over they were considered margin in their stability. Note in navsource you see a picture of weights on deck on rails that run from port to starboard. This was done once the (full wartime displacement) was determined.

Bottom line all weight was removed from the topside area's and removed or relocated closer to the main deck. Bridge wings are a graphic illustration of the weight saving measures.


Regards

[KevinD]

KevinD, Atlanta is firing to port as her bow is at the bottom right of the picture not top left.

David, as stated in my post, I was referring to the 'model box art' (as posted above by Tom Cervo), not the painting I posted.

[taskforce48]

Afternoon,

Reading through the great review Martin did of the recent Very Fire kit, he calls out that Atlanta was launched with 3- bladed props but were changed to 4- bladed due to vibration. I can not locate my Friedman volume on Cruisers ( ) to see if any mention in there of this. The FDD book on Juneau shows her as having 4- bladed props at time of loss but I got to looking at their wrecks and I am unsure of this. There is no clear shot of the props of either one that I have seen from a definitive angle, but I feel both were still 3- bladed. Thoughts?

Juneau getting ready for launch, 3- bladed prop visible

Juneau's prop today

Atlanta's prop

Matt

[Tracy White]

The Review in Question.

Who wants to go to NARA and grab their departure reports?

[KevinD]

Afternoon,
Reading through the great review Martin did of the recent Very Fire kit, he calls out that Atlanta was launched with 3- bladed props but were changed to 4- bladed due to vibration. I can not locate my Friedman volume on Cruisers ( ) to see if any mention in there of this. The FDD book on Juneau shows her as having 4- bladed props at time of loss but I got to looking at their wrecks and I am unsure of this. There is no clear shot of the props of either one that I have seen from a definitive angle, but I feel both were still 3- bladed. Thoughts?
Matt

Can't speak for Juneau, but from having dived / surveyed the wreck of Atlanta I would say hers are three bladed. I think a close look at the set of pics I posted on page 16 of this thread bears that out, the 'highlighted' one below from the set in particular. download/file.php?id=126388&mode=view

And those bent prop shafts and sheared of stern never cease to amze me!

EDIT: Lightened the photo that Matt posted (from the GUE video) for a different perspective / angle on the prop.

[MartinJQuinn]

Interesting! In the Floating Drydock book I used as a reference, it mentioned the switch from the 3-bladed to 4-bladed props due to vibrations. I went back and looked through The Floating Drydock book and Friedman's book and don't see mention of it. Friedman mentions the vibrations, but nothing about a switch in props. I never thought to look at wreck photos!

[Guba]

The Warship Perspectives book does state "they ultimately carried four bladed props with a much shallower pitch." The book leads one to believe it was stated about Atlanta and Juneau. But the picture in the book is of Tucson. I also thought that my Atlanta model would need new screws (I'm an ex-navy engineer, they are called SCREW's, not props!). In light of recent pictures, it would seem the original screws might still have been in place...or that they replaced them with screws with a shallower pitch than what they were.