Calling all Kriegsmarine Prinz Eugen, Admiral Hipper & Blücher fans

[Robin]

Martin,

Thanks.

[Olaf Held]

Visualisation of the list I posted on the previous page, on my Tamiya 1/700 model:



#5, the additional torpedo stowage containers are not visible from this angle. Anyway, they where there during the sortie with the Bismarck. I don't know if the new Trumpy model features them and if so, then maybe only the two 'flat' tripple containers at the aft edge of the funnel but not the upright double container on the stb base of the funnel.

#9 ~ The one I forgot in my list. Before Brest, there was a 3m AA rangefinder at this position. On later photos the upgraded version - now with night vision capability - is apparent. I think it was upgraded during the time in Brest as well. That Tamiya kit features the upgraded version and I had to downgrade it by bending a strip of paper into the round shape of the bulwark, soaked with superglue and painted. The rangefinder was cut out from some spare PE railing.

Happy modelling ~ Olaf!

[nord]

Hi
My Frist Post
Do you think that Trumrpter will do the Admiral Hipper in 1/700 as thay are doing it in 1/350.I wil be getting the Prinz Eugen in 1/700 by Trumrpter do you think the WEM PE Set will work for these ships
i am geting back to model makeing after 25 years
all the best
nord

[Fishcakes]

Thanks for the info on Eugen for Rhein�bung. I'm going to moan like I have on every other forum as to why she was blimmin done in the later fit! She would be much better with the Trumpeter Hood and Revell Bismarck!
Still it might be fun backdating, test my meagre modelling skills hmm...
I'm sure I'll be fine.

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

Hello fellows,

Now we have such a wonderful detailed 1:350 Trumpeter model of the Prinz, I'd like to know if anybody can shed some light on this:

In the nice Warship Pictorial 21 booklet on the ship, already on the cover it is very clear that turrets Anton and Bruno (A and B that is) had names on them, in a very German Gothic typeface. Turret A is named "Graz" and turret B "Braunau". These are both town/cities in Austria, which is not entirely strange.

Does anybody know names of the two aft turrets? And just as interesting: is there a story attached to these names?

And, by the way, was this also practice on other German warships? I can't recall I had seen it elsewhere.

Anyway, I think I'm going to make some nice little decals for these names.

Maarten

[Olaf Held]

Does anybody know names of the two aft turrets? And just as interesting: is there a story attached to these names?

Turret Caesar: Innsbruck
Turret Dora: Wien

Happy decal-printing ~ Olaf!

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

Thanks Olaf!

I hope someone will also tell the story behind these names...

Maarten

[Timmy C]

Hi
My Frist Post
Do you think that Trumrpter will do the Admiral Hipper in 1/700 as thay are doing it in 1/350.I wil be getting the Prinz Eugen in 1/700 by Trumrpter do you think the WEM PE Set will work for these ships
i am geting back to model makeing after 25 years
all the best
nord

Are they likely to do Hipper in 1/700? Yes. Do I know for sure? Nope.

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

Hello all,

I have been looking the last couple of days to what needs to be done to backdate the new Trumpeter 1/350 PE to the moment of Rhein�bung. Thanks to the excellent initial list from Olaf (thanks! I used your list as the basis, you see) I was triggered to attach the building steps and parts involved, plus some suggestions hoew it can be done. Most changes can be made in a couple of minutes, I fear only the last one (change the AA platforms on the funnel to searchlight platforms) is difficult, unless you have spare Bismarck parts (Tamiya?) available.

WP21 = Warship Profile #21 Kriegsmarine Prinz Eugen

Errors in the kit (for all periods)

� Rudder hinge pin: hole in hull 1.6mm too far forward on kit, pin 1.8mm too far forward on rudder. Make new rudder hinge pin (brass rod) and make new locating hole in hull
� Centre propeller has wrong direction of rotation, should be the same as of port propeller. Take blades off and cement with opposite pitch angle.
� Boat booms missing completely, should be checked on photographs when carried on outside of hull. (These where not carried during Rhein�bung)
� Propeller guard booms missing completely, should be checked on photographs when carried on outside of hull.
� Turrets Anton and Dora (A and D): remove ladder on LH side (when looking in firing direction) of turret
� Stern chock at extreme rear of hull above deck needs to be detailed (looks like a small bulwark now) ref WP21 page 71.
� Add pipe from scratch against main front member of mainmast (picture page 11 WP21)
I intend to replace at least the kit radars by brass PE versons from the GMM Bismarck/Tirpitz set.

Backdating to 22-27 May 1941 Operation �Rhein�bung�

Step 2 parts F1 and G15/17. The four triple torpedo launchers did not feature their anti-spray copula. Use part F2 instead.

Step 3 parts F14/G37 (x7). Delete all 20 mm guns and fill holes in deck.

Step 5 parts G35, F14/G37. Delete 20 mm gun and platform. Fill holes in top of turret.

Step 7 parts G20 and G4. Delete these directors and replace by circular tub and 3m rangefinders.

Step 9 parts G22 (4x). Delete these Sumatra radar antennas.

Step 9 part C24. The large Tyfon ship�s whistle must be relocated from the roof of the bridge to protrude from the front bulwark of part A4, .. mm starboard of the centreline.

Step 9 parts B40/D10. Modify director house to have only one level. Cut/sand off all detail from top of B40, cut radar support and observation turret from D10 and cement these to B40.

Step 9 part B29. Replace FuMO 26 radar by spare FuMO 23 radar from mainmast (B19)

Step 10, parts G12/13 on B3/4. The two forward high-angle AA-directors are lacking their domed tops (in German: "Wackeltopf"). This pair was handed over to the Russians, together with the aft pair from Bismarck and together with the 3rd ship of the second batch of Hipper class cruisers, the L�tzow (Feb. 1940). In place of the domed tops, ordinary 3m-rangefinders were installed. Build these from scratch, or use them from a Bismarck kit.

Step 10 part A11. The AA platform in front of the conning tower, directly above the Admiral's Bridge, was narrower and just featured a railing and a searchlight instead of the Flakvierling. Modify the kit part and add the searchlight, I use a spare from the Revell Bismarck kit.

Step 11 parts D2/21/22/27/28. From the additional deckhouse beneath the searchlight platform of the main mast, the upper storey needs to be removed.

Step 11 part B4. Aft of this additional deckhouse, between the main mast and the aft rangefinder/gun director base, there are a few changes in the layout of the bulwarks. I don�t have access to photos right now but check p.4 of this thread here. There is a photo which shows the additional bulwark. I�m pretty sure it wasn�t there in 1941.

Step 11 parts C38/39, A15 and B19. Delete all radars from mainmast.

Step 13 part (A)PE10. Replace slant railing with an upright one, covered by canvas.

Step 14 parts A5/6. The AA platforms on either side of the funnel were searchlight platforms, with hemispherical rotatable covers. Similar to Bismarck. Platforms can be modified by cutting off rear platform extension, and making fixed part of domed hood from scratch (Evergreen strip). Rotatable dome parts from Bismarck kit, or modified from spare Wackeltopf rangefinder (G12/13) which has the same diameter.

Disposition of boats, liferafts and paravanes still to be checked.

Please add your corrections and additions!

regards
Maarten

[Olaf Held]

Hi Maarten ~ That's an impressive changes-to-do-list, thanks for that.

As I do not have the kit, what is Step 13 part (A)PE10. Replace slant railing with an upright one, covered by canvas.?

Happy modelling ~ Olaf!

[Timmy C]

Olaf, you can check out our review here - it has shots of all the instructions and most of the parts:
http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/sh ... eview.html
PE10 is that angled piece of railing in fret A.

[Olaf Held]

Olaf, you can check out our review here - it has shots of all the instructions and most of the parts:
http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/sh ... eview.html
PE10 is that angled piece of railing in fret A.

Stupid me ... thanks Timmy ...

Happy modelling ~ Olaf!

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

You already found out I guess... the kit supplies a nicely curved railing for the mainmast searchlight platform. Gives an outward leaning 'Kanzel' like the U-Boot machine gun Kanzel.

Is ok for later versions, but in '41 the railing was simply upright, so should be replaced with a piece of stock railing. And since it seems to be covered with canvas normally as wind breaker, this should be added by the modeller.

Does anybody have more sight on what boats were carried (and in what positions) during Rhein�bung?

Cheers,
Maarten

[M�LDERS]

Thanks Olaf!

I hope someone will also tell the story behind these names...

Maarten

Prinz Eugen von Savoyen was one of the most famous "warlords" or commanders of the so called "Haus �sterreich" (Blood Line of austrian aristocracy, succession) which is a part of european aristocracy in the 17th/18th century. (->napoleonic wars)
He and his succession was a guarantor for Austrias continental supremacy during these decades.

He is interessting for the contemporary (WWII) german propaganda for several reasons:

1.) He tried to motivate his troups for some idea or higher ideals, not for money or booty
2.) He led his troups personly into the battle and was wounded thirteen times.
3.) Hitler was austrian. (born in Braunau)


I am really sorry but my english is not good enough to depict all reasons why he was abused and used by german propaganda. Too hard for me to talk about it clearly and exact, offside my (german) motherlanguage.
Just take it as a reminiscense to Germany�s WWII ideology, that " what divided europe earlier, is now all united under a swastika" (new world order, new point of view, new identity)

Or a bit more plain:
Hitler was from Austria. PG�s Turrets are namend after austrian towns because of that.


Prinz Eugen v. Savoyen (18. Oktober 1663 Paris; � 21. April 1736 Vienna)

I hope i was able to lighten it a little.

Best Regards and thanks for your work and sharing it with us.

[Olaf Held]

@ Alex ~ Thanks for the history lesson, I completely forgot to look it up ...

@ Maarten ~ I'm not quite sure about that railing thing:



The red lines I've drawn into this shot taken during the Baltic trials may be a bit exaggerated but I think there was a slant in the railing right from the beginning. However, it stands to discussion if this slant would be visible in 1/350 (or 1/700 in my case) without giving it the look of a submarine's 'Wintergarten' ...

The canvas dodgers were not there on this railing during Rhein�bung. At least photos from departing Norway and entering Brest do not show them. Anyway, if someone wants to add them - why not? Artistic license ...

I will soon share some progress on my model ...

Happy modelling ~ Olaf!

[FrancisMcN]

Many thanks to Olaf and Maarten for their work on expalining how to achieve the May 41 configuration.

Olaf - did you find that close up photo of Tirpitz AA directors without the domes by any chance?

[Olaf Held]

Olaf - did you find that close up photo of Tirpitz AA directors without the domes by any chance?

No, not yet. I found one showing a smaller rangefinder in place of the aft main gun director. I'm afraid this very photo spoiled my memory ... sorry ... but I'll keep my eyes open ...

With regard to the 1941 Prinz, there are one or two other differences, temporary 'solutions' for Rhein�bung. Will show them once I have them on my model ...

Oh, there's another I'm sure everybody has heard of ... the absence of the stem anchor ... add this to your list Maarten ...

Happy modelling ~ Olaf!

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

Hi Olaf,

You mention the STEM anchor but I believe you mean the STERN anchor? In lowercase typeface the two can easily be confused...

I also have to add one new feature: during Rhein�bung (and also during Cerberus the next year) the PE very visibly had canvas blast bags around the 203 mm main gun barrels. During the earlier exercises in the Baltic these were not worn, and later on when the ship spent its later days in the Baltic these were removed again. Apparently only needed in the heavy seas of the Atlantic.

These blast bags are missing in the Trumpeter kit and will have to be made from scratch, Milliput seems the best choice here.

And yet another: Step 2 parts G16 and G37. Delete all AA gun splinter shields. These were apparently not carried on the 20mm and 37 mm guns at that time yet.



Maarten

[Dick J]

Actually, most of the large German ship DID, at some point, carry a STEM anchor. That is the one centerline on the bow. If you look at the pics of PE, she either has the stem anchor, or the haws-hole for it is visible. The larger German ships also carried a STERN anchor. I believe that on PE, both had been removed by the end of the war.

[Maarten Sch�nfeld]

I checked the photographs, and you are completely right. The STEM anchor was deleted before Rhein�bung, apparently to save weight forward. It was not carried anyway when entering Brest at June 1st. During the sailing from Norway both anchor cables were attached to the two bow anchors on either side, and not to the middle stem anchor, as was the case during one of the exercises in the Baltic.

What the situation is with the STERN anchor cannot be assured, no clear view in any of the photos. I would assume it was retained at that time.

Maarten