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PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:55 am 
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Brett Morrow wrote:
Is this what you wanted to see Kevin ?


Yes sir! :thumbs_up_1: Thank you!!!!

That is certainly a long length of shaft. It and the outer port prop off PoW are laying somewhere on the seabed well away from the wreck, if a scavenger hasn't stumbled on them first that is.

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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:15 am 
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Thanks for your reply Chris.
Chris G wrote:
Mr. Dunleavy the man who was on the crew of Exeter when sunk said the ocean was suprrisingly warm and they didnt see any sharks which was a blessing.

Yes the Java Sea is warm, and nowadays completely shark free (fished out), back then probably not though. I didnt see one in eight years of diving there. Whereas in some locations you see them on almost every dive. Before all those ships sank and became 'artificial reefs' there was little there in the 'central' Java Sea in the way of reefs to attract the smaller fish the sharks feed on; except right next to some of the few islands there, which are mainly to the far north west, save for Bawean.

Chris G wrote:
I am not sure how he got picked up, i dont think he was captured by the Japanese...dont remember that being the case.

I think he would have had to been, as I don't recall any Exeter chaps surviving any other way, i.e. except from being picked up either that day or the next by the Japs.

Chris G wrote:
.......could be wrong about what i remember he showed me as his action station it may have been on the other side of the ship. I am lucky I remember as much as I do for it was now 45 years ago.

Please don't think for one minute I am questioning your / his account, as I am not. He may certainly have been one of the lucky ones in the left hand gun crew by all means.

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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:22 am 
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KevinD wrote:
EJ, below is a clearer version of the text for the boats. Biggest size image I could make / post given the 400kb file size for posting here.


Two detail questions - the first involving the above post (link to origiginal). Port and starboard outboard of the funnels we have a 36' pinnace (port) and a 35' motor pinnace (starboard). Micromaster has a 36' motor pinnace, a 36' sailing pinnace. Would it be safe to presume that the 36' pinnace in the plans is a "sailing" pinnace, lacking the "motor" in its title?

Second, they recently released two rangefinder sets, a Barr & Stroud 9' F.Q.2 and a Barr & Stroud 12' F.Q.2. Both product pages state "used on most mid to large sized capital ships in WWI and WWII." but I note the 9' variant has "Leander class" in the URL. Research suggests these were too old for Exeter, but I haven't been able to find anything on what look like optical rangefinders that were on Exeter's bridge. Anyone have any info about the identity of these pieces of equipment?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:43 am 
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Tracy White wrote:
Second, they recently released two rangefinder sets, a Barr & Stroud 9' F.Q.2 and a Barr & Stroud 12' F.Q.2. Both product pages state "used on most mid to large sized capital ships in WWI and WWII." but I note the 9' variant has "Leander class" in the URL. Research suggests these were too old for Exeter, but I haven't been able to find anything on what look like optical rangefinders that were on Exeter's bridge. Anyone have any info about the identity of these pieces of equipment?

Can't thelp with your first question, but the below might help with your above. However, if you are after the actual manufacturers name of the RF's on bridge then..................it wont. (This excerpt is from same plan as in previous, i.e. 1930.)

At bottom is the coral encrusted RF on port side of Exeter's bridge (on wreck). Must say, although everything seems much smaller when swimming around them, I would never have thought they were 12ft (almost 4m) across, but..............I guess they were (unless of course replaced with smaller version during 1940 refit).


Attachments:
RF's on Exeter's bridge.jpg
RF's on Exeter's bridge.jpg [ 301.92 KiB | Viewed 1176 times ]
RF on portside Exeter bridge.jpg
RF on portside Exeter bridge.jpg [ 247.12 KiB | Viewed 1176 times ]

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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942


Last edited by KevinD on Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:18 am, edited 2 times in total.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:08 am 
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KevinD wrote:
Tracy White wrote:
Second, they recently released two rangefinder sets, a Barr & Stroud 9' F.Q.2 and a Barr & Stroud 12' F.Q.2. Both product pages state "used on most mid to large sized capital ships in WWI and WWII." but I note the 9' variant has "Leander class" in the URL. Research suggests these were too old for Exeter, but I haven't been able to find anything on what look like optical rangefinders that were on Exeter's bridge. Anyone have any info about the identity of these pieces of equipment?

Can't thelp with your first question, but the below might help with your above. However, if you are after the actual manufacturers name of the RF's on bridge then..................it wont. (This excerpt is from same plan as in previous, i.e. 1930.)

Here's an extensive overview of all Barr & Stroud rangefinders, including drawings. Maybe you may find the exact type. I note the sizes are in metres, so maybe you have to convert feet to metres.http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/tfs/index.php/Barr_and_Stroud_Rangefinders#F.G._4

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Even now I see the foreign flag a-raising, their guns on fire as we sail into hell"
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:05 am 
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Thanks for that link Maarten. While I'll leave it to others to ID the rangefinder type, the one historical photo there works well for illustrating 'something' on Exeter's bridge (on wreck). Or did before the wreck 'disappeared'. Photo shows collapsed remains of a voice pipe and Pelorus stand.


Attachments:
Pelorus-and-voice-pipe-on-Exeter's-bridge.jpg
Pelorus-and-voice-pipe-on-Exeter's-bridge.jpg [ 398.47 KiB | Viewed 1155 times ]

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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:42 am 
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Does anyone have a close up photo (or schematic / drawing) that they could post of the type of High-Angle Control Tower that was fitted to Exeter just aft of her 8" gun director during her 1940 refit? It doesn't have to be 'from / of' Exeter, but just the same type as on Exeter.

If so. much appreciated.

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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:17 am 
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And today the 79th anniversary of HMS's Exeter and Encounter and USS Pope's sinking (and 'last' night USS Houston and HMAS Perth). RIP those lost.


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Fight-It-Out-HMS-Exeter.jpg
Fight-It-Out-HMS-Exeter.jpg [ 109.06 KiB | Viewed 998 times ]
Exeter-sinking-clipping-from-Jap-newspaper.jpg
Exeter-sinking-clipping-from-Jap-newspaper.jpg [ 51.69 KiB | Viewed 998 times ]

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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2021 9:06 am 
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While painting the hull and starting to paint deck details on my HMS Exeter (Trumpeter 1/350), I realized that, apart from the planks below the chains being Dark Gray (Which Trumpeter instructions got right), the chains are LIGHT Gray??? Seems like a peace time thing, but I guess that they were still Light gray when the Battle of the River Plate happened a few months later than this picture was taken. The Dark Gray plank gives me all the impression of it being raised above the deck level, like a carpet or something, not really worth representing in 1/350 but interesting.

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Marco


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:14 am 
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The surface beneath the chain was probably steel. The chains would grind into wood pretty quickly.

Can't tell from the photo, but was the ship at anchor or at sea?

If the ship was at anchor they would have run the chain out almost to the end. In the US Navy (and perhaps the Royal Navy) the very end of the chain was painted red, and before that it was yellow. The yellow links were a warning or signal that the chain had been payed out far enough. If the chain could not be stopped and the red links came on deck it was a warning to clear the area. If the chain ripped loose from it's attachment in the chain locker, when the end came on deck it would flail wildly and anyone or anything struck by it could be sliced in half.

Phil

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:45 am 
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Telling tonality from black and white photography requires hints such as sky value from which we may attempt to deduce filtration or even if it's a panchromatic film. Given that photo is from above and outboard the main deck, one would guess at dock or in a raft of ships. Red filtration is commonly used to accentuate the sky and clouds, and a red painted chain. Sometimes in such period photos a hull red will look almost white.

Tom


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:18 am 
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DrPR wrote:
Can't tell from the photo, but was the ship at anchor or at sea?

The ship was docked in Philadelphia late 1938 (Edit - WRONG: was 'early' 1939). Am not at my computer (but am now) but can post the full photo later, or I think it 'may' already have been posted somewhere in this thread.

The below is on the back of the hard copy I have.


Attachments:
Exeter-Phily-1939.jpg
Exeter-Phily-1939.jpg [ 98.41 KiB | Viewed 704 times ]

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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942


Last edited by KevinD on Wed Apr 07, 2021 4:08 am, edited 3 times in total.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:53 am 
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DrPR wrote:
The surface beneath the chain was probably steel. The chains would grind into wood pretty quickly.

Can't tell from the photo, but was the ship at anchor or at sea?

If the ship was at anchor they would have run the chain out almost to the end. In the US Navy (and perhaps the Royal Navy) the very end of the chain was painted red, and before that it was yellow. The yellow links were a warning or signal that the chain had been payed out far enough. If the chain could not be stopped and the red links came on deck it was a warning to clear the area. If the chain ripped loose from it's attachment in the chain locker, when the end came on deck it would flail wildly and anyone or anything struck by it could be sliced in half.

Phil


To complete Phil's message, the wheel that is operated is the windlass brake :

https://youtu.be/b7pRfix_sNg

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:01 am 
OK, so which BF "appears" to have failed to shackle the end of the cable to the deck clench? Someone had blundered. More to the point why was the ship running the cable out to a "clench" anyway?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:19 pm 
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Thanks for your comments. I have the impression that during peace time, the chains were painted light gray, as it shows in several pictures, like this one at the entrance of the Panama Canal, 1934. Shallow waters.
Image

I found one picture, though, showing black (or dark) colored chains, Panama canal as well, and I had the same date for both pictures, evidently wrong date (either that, or the British were bloody fast changing anchor chains!!!).
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Marco


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:13 pm 
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Don't you think that the different 'colour' is just the dramaticaly different tone / contrast within the two photographs? That is, the deck, etc, looks almost white in the overhead (and the water black), whereas in the smaller photo the whole image is just various shades of grey from light to dark.

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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:02 pm 
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KevinD wrote:
Don't you think that the different 'colour' is just the dramaticaly different tone / contrast within the two photographs? That is, the deck, etc, looks almost white in the overhead (and the water black), whereas in the smaller photo the whole image is just various shades of grey from light to dark.


Hi Kevin, could be, in fact that is the only picture that I found where the chains seem to be black (or dark). I found the same picture with better definition. I would swear that there are black and light gray segments in the picture. What might be, is that only the links on the deck, with anchors up, were painted, and the rest would remain black or dark color. Could be, just guessing.
Right now, where I currently stand, think that I will paint the anchor chains light gray and give them some sort of weathering, but as I am still several weeks away from that (I was researching the deck colors, not the chains), any information is welcome.

Image

Marco


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:08 pm 
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You may find that the chain in the initial image posted by Marco could be either light grey or white, as was the case in many prewar examples.
But lighter colours were not just used prewar as displayed in a wartime DD image of Devonshire. Exeter`s chain may have been repainted dark prior to Graf Spee engagement, as seen in Port Stanley images, but of course images can be very deceiving, in the prior image there is also the question of whether the first shackle only was light coloured.


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ANCHOR CHAIN.jpg
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:41 am 
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Marco wrote:
Hi Kevin, could be, in fact that is the only picture that I found where the chains seem to be black (or dark). I found the same picture with better definition. Marco

Well there is no doubt that parts / sections of the chains look very dark / "black" in that image!

But why the 'white' sections? Mesurement aid?

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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:33 am 
Gentlemen,

Permit me to butt in. Until recently, it was the practice in the Royal Navy during peace-time, to paint the cable that rested on deck between the anchor and the navel pipe, white. That is with the anchor "close home" in its hawse pipe and "secured for sea." Since the 1980's/'90's however, that part of the cable has been left unpainted and I believe that it has been the practice to put a coat of oil on it to inhibit rust. I may be wrong but I certainly never saw cable painted grey or black.

In going to anchor, that part of the cable that rested on deck would be underwater, thus any of the cable above water, of the anchor that was in use, would generally, show as rusty steel.

If, however, the ship was secured to a buoy, it was normal practice to paint the "bridles" i.e. the cable that was on deck and outboard, white; which was probably the initial reason for painting white, any cable on deck anyway. In short it saved time later.

The above information probably holds good for warships of the Empire/Commonwealth navies during the period as well.

Incidentally, anchors of Royal Navy ships and auxiliaries are normally painted the same colour as the hull. They are never black on grey.

I will not digress into the marking of the joining of "shackles" (sorry Americans: "shots") of cable here.


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