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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:45 am 
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To whome it may concern,
There seems to be many things to check/re-check before proceeding on to build a model.
I personally find it is of fairly primary importance to seek the unknown,the unconventional ,if any(yes,there are)about this type of heavy cruisers. Design & construction of the hull is principarily the same as Kako/Furutaka´s,however,there are obvious kinetic differences in outboard structures,weapons & fittings between the two classes, needless to mention the wartime fixings. So,I have put up a new thread positively to distinguish the Aoba class from the close sisters of Kako class...

For the time being I´m being confronted with a decision to make about which type of seaplanes will have to be adopted depending on time-frames one will have to choose.

a) from the outset of the War til the Solomon period, early June 1942
b) from June 22nd 1942 -
c) 1943-
d) from July 1944- August-September
e) at the time of the Leyte Operations, from around 20th October til Novemer,1944
f) after relieved from naval operations and as a kure-harbor guard ship = 1st of March 1945-
g) when final additional AA mg mounts were added - June 1945 - til the war´s end

br
M.K.Sasaki


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:31 am 
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I took my hats off to the modeller who did express 2 x jakes on Aoba regardless of the fact Aoba had seaplanes differerntly at the time of the Leyte Oprs.Oct 1944 and even after( in 1945). After all ships models are ship models, sometime one feels like placing seaplanes of one´s like, within certain choices. Well understood.

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html


br
M.K.Sasaki


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:21 pm 
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Well it still has the training aiming devices on top of the turrets. Those shall be removed.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 2:52 pm 
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Just fyi - I find this to be an interesting photo. I believe this view of Aoba still fitting out came from an Ebay auction, possibly via the late Bill Sommerville. I don't really recall. I've cropped it and sharpened it up. I think this view is looking towards Mitsubishi's Nagasaki shipyard.


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Aoba hull, Inland Sea, 1927 crop alt.jpg
Aoba hull, Inland Sea, 1927 crop alt.jpg [ 103.76 KiB | Viewed 2949 times ]
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:23 pm 
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Atma wrote:
Well it still has the training aiming devices on top of the turrets. Those shall be removed.


I did notice the device on the turret roof, however, i concentrated on the aircraft to begin with.

As you might know it or not,the device is to be placed inside the designated place of the Saijyo kanpan compartment of the bridge in battle readiness= Rinsen Jyunbi.
fyi some battleships have this ,right at the back side of the #2 main gun turret.

cheers,


Last edited by Mutsuo Sasaki on Tue Dec 17, 2013 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:33 pm 
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Dan K wrote:
Just fyi - I find this to be an interesting photo. I believe this view of Aoba still fitting out came from an Ebay auction, possibly via the late Bill Sommerville. I don't really recall. I've cropped it and sharpened it up. I think this view is looking towards Mitsubishi's Nagasaki shipyard.


from the late Bille Somerville? we still remember he suddenly passed away this March.
He had formidable pics from time to time. Here we can see the degree of the deck slope right after the 3rd main gun. In kidmodels it´s such a tiny amount that it´s mighty hard to see this very slope.This pic is showing it. thanks ,Dan


M.K.Sasaki


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:04 am 
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Dan K wrote:
Just fyi - I find this to be an interesting photo. I believe this view of Aoba still fitting out came from an Ebay auction, possibly via the late Bill Sommerville. I don't really recall. I've cropped it and sharpened it up. I think this view is looking towards Mitsubishi's Nagasaki shipyard.


-------------
Dan, I thank you again,for posting the image of Aoba as a fanfare for starting up a new thread. :wave_1:
I have nothing in return to post,pics of this class during the war (except those of agrounded at Kure) are so scarce.
So far this pic pr new posting turned out to be somewhere from 1942 period, probably prior to the 1st Battle of the Savo Isl. pr mr Tamura´s explanation. Am still watching this and thinking to come up with some more in here .
(this was a gift from the late mr. Hasegawa Toichi,author of ijn aircraft carriers in Mech version,Grand Prix Shuppan,1997.He presumably enjoyed a good relationship with the ex. capt. Tamura.) I now think i introduced this somewhere in the past.


br
Mutsuo. S.


Attachments:
ASIAoba class and Kako class 1942.jpg
ASIAoba class and Kako class 1942.jpg [ 70.75 KiB | Viewed 2898 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:39 am 
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I was drilling out my portholes yesterday on the Kinugasa yesterday when disaster struck! :mad_2: I finished drilling out all the starboard side portholes, then was about halfway done on the port side when my drill bit decided to break off in one of the portholes!! :mad_1: Normally I don't usually get too mad at the time of crisis :heh: , but, I didn't have a spare bit of the right size. One was just a bit too big, and the other was just a bit too small. Oh well. Looks like I'll be taking her hull to the hobby shop to get the right size bits. I am definitely get a bunch this time! I learned my lesson. :big_grin:



I have the new Model Art #50 and it has all 4 ships of the class in drawings of 1/700 in their 1942 fits. My question is, were Kinugasa, and Aoba identical at this time. I looked at the drawings til my eyes were ready to fall out of my skull and could not find any significant differences? Am I going crazy? Or is this true?? Any help would be appreciated.



Bob Pink. :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:07 pm 
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I have the new Model Art #50 and it has all 4 ships of the class in drawings of 1/700 in their 1942 fits. My question is, were Kinugasa, and Aoba identical at this time. I looked at the drawings til my eyes were ready to fall out of my skull and could not find any significant differences? Am I going crazy? Or is this true?? Any help would be appreciated.
by Bob Pink
--------------
yea, besides the already known differences( i have to omit mentioning ´em, cuz these must have already been dealt with by other members in other IJN cruiser fans forums) there are kinetic differences so far unknown and non-examined in the above mentioned japanese ship magazines and in other "reliable" sources. An article about these unkown differences is to come out somewhere in ultimo February, 2014. If you´re patient enough til that time, I´m sure youi will see info then.



cheers,
Mutsuo S.


Last edited by Mutsuo Sasaki on Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 2:53 pm 
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I will have to be patient I guess. :heh: Thank you for the information! :thumbs_up_1:





Bob Pink. :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:46 am 
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According to the book of Nihon Kaigun Kantei photo great album vol.1 one of the book authors mentions that the seaplane parked on the hangar is of 0-shiki 3 seater Jake. I rubbed my eyes two or three times, and the plane is actually type 94 -model-2 Besides,the time is still within late 1941.


/Mutsuo S.K.


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Aoba 94shiki.jpg
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 4:42 am 
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I have long been believing this heavy cruiser will be Kinugasa, however, I began to think it actually is not...

Then which cruiser this one wil be.

Mutsuo S.


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battle of the CoralSea a paint.jpg
battle of the CoralSea a paint.jpg [ 84.28 KiB | Viewed 2799 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:34 am 
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Well I guess the answer to the mystery lies here (?):
Image


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:36 pm 
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Wow, that's a sharp eye, Atma. Only Kinugasa and Kako have that dip in the fairlead. But, Mucho, why do you think that it's not Kinugasa?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:17 pm 
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Dan K wrote:
Wow, that's a sharp eye, Atma. Only Kinugasa and Kako have that dip in the fairlead. But, Mucho, why do you think that it's not Kinugasa?


yea,Dan, this ID looks easy at first glance, however, i ´m counting 4 major ID points in here including the bow fairlead (there can be some more smaller id points, though, but I concentrate on these 4, pr now )'

Out of 3, it is of Kunigasa, and the last one is probably not of her,probably not. I´m still searching for the last one...


/Mutsuo S.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:57 pm 
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hi again,
One of the last, decisive points will be this one:
Cross section drawings will be applied later to confirm this point.

Mutsuo S.


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ASICoral sea x.jpg
ASICoral sea x.jpg [ 77.8 KiB | Viewed 2751 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 5:01 pm 
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Will the pic in question match this cross section drawing of Aoba class/Kako class?
My take is, it apparently does not.
There´s no level off area on the bow deck of Aoba/Kako class 4 cruisers.


Mutsuo S.
-------------------------

added: 21/11 ´13
In contrast to Aoba/Kako classe´s, both Myoko and Takao class 4 cruiers respectively have got "level-off" deck area.

However, it´s extremely difficult to perceive this point on conventional ship models,drawings and in other ijn materials.

Only good close photos,body line drawing will showthis minute nuance in the deck line.

And I´m beginning to think the original Coral Sea enroute pic that i have posted is also clearly showing this one.
I´m sure some other close-up pics of Takao and Myoko class cruisers may,too.


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ASIAoba cl Kako cl common paint.jpg
ASIAoba cl Kako cl common paint.jpg [ 108.03 KiB | Viewed 2745 times ]
ASItakao.13 paint.jpg
ASItakao.13 paint.jpg [ 93.34 KiB | Viewed 2692 times ]


Last edited by Mutsuo Sasaki on Sat Dec 21, 2013 6:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:19 pm 
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Surprisingly or not, this cruiser is definitely not Kinugasa,and I was disappointed. :(

Then I think i might be able to boil down to 2 possibilities,since 4 Takao class are out of the question even though this cruiser has the same level off at the mentioned deck.

Nachi and Ashigawa didn´t take part in the Coral Sea operartion,so, here are 2 possibilities now. :smallsmile:

The important thing is ,shape of Kinugasa´s bow fairlead/crest holder is almost identical to that of Kako,that´s true,.
However,the dip in the fairlead of Kako & kinugasa which Dan mentioned, is not deep enough there is actually a smaller fairlead in between as one can see in this original Coral Sea pic.

However, Kako/Kinugasa don´t have this smaller one between the crest holder and the fairlead.
This will be an effective clue.

cheers,
Mutsuo S.


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bow fairleader composite.jpg
bow fairleader composite.jpg [ 103.2 KiB | Viewed 2724 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:41 pm 
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I'm not sure how you would choose between Myoko and Haguro, unless the lack of a second set of bollards past the fairlead is the answer. Then, it's Haguro.


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Myoko class bow differences, MA #11.jpg
Myoko class bow differences, MA #11.jpg [ 122.57 KiB | Viewed 2721 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 21, 2013 3:34 am 
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Dan K wrote:
I'm not sure how you would choose between Myoko and Haguro, unless the lack of a second set of bollards past the fairlead is the answer. Then, it's Haguro.


thanks , Dan for the follow up. that´s right. I was still not sure about the second set is a second set of bollards or not.
To my eyes the dark object just hehind the fairllead(s) in the original pic looks like another bit(as I tempo wrote it as smaller fairllead, though.)

About the second set of bollards(or bits) of Haguro, they apparently ought to be much higher than Myoko´s, and Haguro´s will be singular, not as a set. The problem is I don´t have any clearer pics of this(these) yet.

The other clue will be ,the escorting cruisers will be following after the tail of the Zuikaku and Shokaku en route to the Coral Sea as captioned in this original Maru book pic. suppose they are keepingtheir fleet formation, I´m inclined toward believing that this cruiser will be flagship Myoko, probably.

I mean the fleet flagship cruiser be follwoing closest to the tail of Inoue´s aircraft carriers.


br
Mutsuo mucho,

sorry,uploading of other pics later


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