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PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:46 pm 
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hi yea , Have been away due to busYness.
Re. the rudder these 2 class cruisers have one big single rudder. One can also see the pivot of the rudder in one of Furutaka´s pics taken during her construction. Visually too, the pivot lies in the center.

regards,

M.S.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:52 pm 
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Sasaki-San mentioned that the Kinugasa's forward deck was altered to look more like that of Myoko.

And that this was a point of difference between the Kinugasa and Aoba.

I am trying to do an Aoba and Kinugasa for the 1942 Solomon's Campaign (Savo Island and Cape Esperance), but I am having trouble determining what to do about the PE kits (I have the newer Hasegawa kits for these ships).

This thread has said the Rainbow PE kits for both ships are a bugger to work with. I have one set of the Kinugasa PE for the Kinugasa, but the PE kit for the Aoba is for 1944 (I have a thread in the Main Forum that mentions this).

I am already aware of the issues with the turrets having their training devices removed. And I have already taken care of the dip in the Fairlead of the Kinugasa.

The PE decks for the ships are the same kit from Rainbow (they just have PE inserts for the deck where the '42 to '44 changes were made). But I am not quite sure what to do about the differences in the forward deck, as mentioned earlier in the thread (and this post), for the Kinugasa. The "changes" were not exactly specified, and looking at photos of the forward decks of the two ships, all I can see in the few images I can find don't give me enough information about what exactly is on the deck to know any different.

Are we talking about just the arrangement of deck-vents, or is it the shape of the forward forecastle, where the hawsepipes and anchor chains are arranged?

Or is it something more obvious, that my inexperience, or lack of familiarity with the period is causing me to miss?

MB

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1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:03 pm 
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This is what I've got. More than anyone else, Mucho would know if there's more.


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Kinugasa (left) vs Aoba (rt), Maru Special #38.jpg
Kinugasa (left) vs Aoba (rt), Maru Special #38.jpg [ 131.44 KiB | Viewed 691 times ]
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:14 pm 
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Dan K wrote:
This is what I've got. More than anyone else, Mucho would know if there's more.


I have already taken care of the first two pair of images (the Fairlead, and the Stack).

But what is that third pair of images?

It looks like either signal lights or pulleys on a mast.

And, I can only read about three of the Kanji, which don't give me enough context to derive the rest of it.

MB

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HIJMS Nagara
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USS San Francisco
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USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 10:30 am 
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Those are range clocks, phased out during the 1937 refits.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:24 pm 
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Dan K wrote:
Those are range clocks, phased out during the 1937 refits.


OK, then that could be why I don't see them in wartime photos.

So I don't need to worry about them for the 1942 outfit of both ships.

MB

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1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:28 pm 
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Correct.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:30 pm 
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Now to just get the collection of junk kits I have lingering on my desk painted (or finish painting them), so that I can concentrate on some kits that are a bit more interesting.

Like the Kinugasa and Aoba.

So... Other than just these few differences to their forward decks, and stack.... They are pretty much identical in their 1942 outfit?

I need to get (read: find) some photographs of the stacks to figure out where the plumbing they have doodled in on the sides of the stacks comes from.

Obviously it comes from the deck, somewhere.

Also, what do the tops of these vents look like? Are they curved outwards at the top, or are they just open pipes? The former would be a bit of a beach to model.

MB

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1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:09 pm 
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Pretty much identical. Yes, the auxiliary pipes extend upwards from the main deck, though some may route thru some of the other surrounding superstructures. The auxiliary piping vents are varied in their appearance.


Attachments:
Aoba #1 funnel.jpg
Aoba #1 funnel.jpg [ 191.34 KiB | Viewed 595 times ]
Aoba Oct 1934 crop.jpg
Aoba Oct 1934 crop.jpg [ 185.5 KiB | Viewed 595 times ]
Aoba funnels 1945.jpg
Aoba funnels 1945.jpg [ 165.37 KiB | Viewed 595 times ]
Kinugasa funnel #2 1935.jpg
Kinugasa funnel #2 1935.jpg [ 186.31 KiB | Viewed 595 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 5:26 pm 
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Excellent Photos, thank you very much.

Oh! One other question:

Were Aoba and Kinugasa in the same CruiserDiv?

What about Kako and Furutaka?

I see in that last photo of Kinugasa's stack that she is the second ship in her division. I am assuming Aoba is the first.


MB

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1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 3:45 am 
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http://www.combinedfleet.com/aoba_t.htm
http://www.combinedfleet.com/kinugasa_t.htm

hi, The above tarbular movements descrive both,Kako/Furutaka´s ,too.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 4:19 am 
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Sasaki-San,

Isn't there some record that shows the composition of the different fleets, and corresponding Task forces, Groups, Squadrons, and Divisions throughout the War, without having to resort to the TROM?

MB

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1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2015 2:47 pm 
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Alright, Mucho is back!

If such an org chart does exist, it's probably just in Japanese.

Aoba, Kinugasa, Furutaka, & Kako comprised Sentai (CruDiv) 6. In late 1941, they were assigned to First Fleet, which meant that any funnel bands would have been placed on funnel #1. In fact, there are photos from Oct. 1941 of the ships on manuevers with such markings. Aoba was wearing one band; Furutaka wore three bands. Elsewhere, Mucho had posted a photo of Kako's #1 funnel in 1941 with two bands on it. Kinugasa is really too indistinct in the available photos but she could be wearing bands on both funnels.

All of this information may be moot, though. The first Aoba funnel photo that I posted was supposedly taken in 1942, according to the English captioning key in the Nihon no Gunkan volume from which it came. No funnel band. Further, there are a few photos taken from Aoba on the eve of the Battle of Cape Esperance, including the one below, which I am re-posting. I don't think she is wearing funnel bands here, either. Nor in the post battle photo of 10/13.


Attachments:
Aoba looking aft at Fubuki (possibly) Oct 11, 1942, Nihon no Gunkan v #6.jpg
Aoba looking aft at Fubuki (possibly) Oct 11, 1942, Nihon no Gunkan v #6.jpg [ 173.86 KiB | Viewed 544 times ]
Aoba off Buin, Oct 13, 1942.jpg
Aoba off Buin, Oct 13, 1942.jpg [ 89.84 KiB | Viewed 544 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:34 pm 
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Have been away,just returned from a month journey to Tokyo.
Until one comes across org/composition charts translated in English somewhere,I will have to say Dan is correct in that they are just in japanese. Indeed,such charts exist for war readiness period, i.e.1940-41.in japanese, though. For each phase of battles JACAR can provide with detailed info,too,but not all. Probably Wikipedia must have part of org charts translated by now. Not sure about it,though.

sasaki alias mucho


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:41 pm 
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Aoba looking aft at Fubuki (possibly) Oct 11, 1942, Nihon no Gunkan v #6.jpg


hello, Dan. uhmm, this pic above must be of Kinugasa actually.
I´ll go in for there are some ID points in the pic which are distinguishable from her sistership Aoba... believe it or not. :smallsmile:

mucho,


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:36 pm 
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I'm all ears for those points, Mucho. :smallsmile:

Btw, the ID as Aoba came from the Nihon no Gunkan volume, not me.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2015 10:32 pm 
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Mutsuo Sasaki wrote:

Aoba looking aft at Fubuki (possibly) Oct 11, 1942, Nihon no Gunkan v #6.jpg


hello, Dan. uhmm, this pic above must be of Kinugasa actually.
I´ll go in for there are some ID points in the pic which are distinguishable from her sistership Aoba... believe it or not. :smallsmile:

mucho,


Mucho,

And those ID points are exactly what I am looking at for building a Kinugasa and Aoba for the later-1942 period.


So.... VERY MUCH interested in hearing/seeing what they are.

MB

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1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:06 am 
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Matthew and Dan,
As a matter of fact distinction points are in the above mentioned pic. Differences will be positions and shapes of;
the 2kw signal light(the rear mast)
the signal yard ( " )
the steam pipes(nr.1 funnel)
Here you go with your pin-point scrutiny. Good luck!
I think neither conventional ship books nor ijn experts have been pointing out these for more than 70 years,neither the latest Nihon no Kaigun book Dan refers to...

BR
mucho,


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:36 am 
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Wow... He's right.

The pipes on the forward stack can only be from the Kinugasa, which has the paired exhaust piped on the rear-side of the froward funnel, as in the illustration seen earlier.

I can't mKe out the differences in the searchlight near the rear mast that is mentioned, though.

What would be the differences, so that I can reposition the one that needs to be re-positioned (I am betting I will need to re-locate the light on the Kinugasa kit, as it is basically a repeat of the Aoba, but without the AA Gun positions for the Later-War - which I am having to cover).



MB

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Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 7:05 am 
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Thank you, Mucho!

He's talking about a small signal light, not a searchlight. I don't even see it in this photo. I'll try to post an example, later.


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