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PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:14 pm 
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Atma wrote:
...(even the main guns are inaccurate- old ones and the new mold ones!-).....

Okay.. after checking various sources of IJN Takao from the Singapore harbor in 1945 and the IJN Takao AOTS book, the turrects provided by Pit-Road(the new mold turrets) are correct for the 1944-45 version only !
Reasons, Pit-Road's new tooled turrets dont have the exercise aiming device wich according to the IJN Takao AOTS book and pictures of IJN Takao from 1945(cant find enough clear pictures of 1944) had the exercise aiming device removed.
Not sure if that happened to the IJN Atago, IJN Maya and IJN Chokai in 1944(according to the AOTS IJN Takao, the exercise aiming device was removed during 1944 docking times). But the rangefinders are wrong for late 1944-1945 on the new Pit-Road's turrets, reasons:No enlarged spoting windows for number 2# and number 4# turret and there is no "small type" rangefinder and Im talking about the number 1# rangefinder with overhangs removed.Also the AOTS IJN Takao book has a mistake, IJN Takao never had the number 1#rangefinder completely removed as the book insist, just the overhangs by 1944-1945.


Last edited by Atma on Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:27 pm 
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Link or photo?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:39 pm 
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Dan K wrote:
Link or photo?

Link or photo of what ? :S


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:05 pm 
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Picture from Junary 1946 Singapore harbor, IJN Takao, no exercise aiming device, no overhangs for number 1# turret just the housing and enlarged spoting windows for number 2#(Propably on number 4# too, at least IJN Myoko had them on number 4# too):
Image
Also here is a picture of IJN Maya(from 1944) with the same modification on number 1# and 2# turret and probably her number 3# turret(former 4#) was same as the 2# turret:
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:19 pm 
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A limited run of IJN Takao in 1/700 by Fujimi will be out in October with extra PE set.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:05 am 
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The most impressive heavy cruiser class of WWII :
Enjoy!
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:24 am 
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Thanks for the pciture. Really good :thumbs_up_1:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:20 pm 
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You can pre-order the full hul new tooled IJN Takao in 1/700 by Fujimi, in Hobby Search site. Link:
http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10161556


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:53 am 
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Aoshima, is releasing a new/partial re-tooled IJN Takao and IJN Chokai (both early war) this December with IJN Maya 1944 and IJN Atago 1944 will follow next year:
IJN Takao:http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10160971
IJN Chokai:http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10160974
Enjoy !


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:10 pm 
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It looks like they did the smart thing (what was supposed to happen all along) and mold the deck fittings separately - mushroom vents, reels, deck washing lockers, etc.


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Revised 1-350 Takao class deck.jpg
Revised 1-350 Takao class deck.jpg [ 14.75 KiB | Viewed 1717 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:16 pm 
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May be it will be possible to order just those parts from Aoshima?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:16 pm 
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Yes, but it only sends to Japan, no outside.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 3:35 pm 
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So, there is a nice possibility for local retailers then. I would gladly buy it from HLJ i.e.

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Marek

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/users/Marek-Targowicz/user-index.html


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:21 pm 
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So would I.

On to other business:

Over the years, I have occasionally broached the issue of whether or not Maya retained its external degaussing cable after its reconstruction as an AA cruiser. Off line discussions with colleagues in Japan have been inconclusive to date. Now that I am in the midst of a Maya 1944 build, I thought it best to review all the evidence yet again. My conclusion: she did not.

Even thought the one beam photo of her as reconstructed off Tawi Tawi in May, 1944 is too indistinct to make a determination, I felt there were several indirect indicators. For one, there was the trend among most new major warship construction or reconstruction from 1943 on, for which photos exist, that show no external degaussing cable (i.e. Oyodo, all the Unryus, Isuzu, Ibuki hull, all the Matsu/Tachibana DDs). Of course, that doesn’t explain why other new warship construction, like Yahagi & Sakawa, or the Akizukis, or reconstructions like Kitakami, retained theirs.

There are also interesting hints in 30+ year old references, such as the Maru Special #125 or the Model Art vol #360 Drawings of Imperial Japanese Naval Vessels – Cruisers, in which late war illustrations of all the Takao sisters show no such cabling. Yet, drawings of the other late war heavy cruisers such as the Tones, the Myokos, and Aoba, clearly show theirs. True, these are secondary sourced references, so these illustrations cannot be taken as definitive. But, they don’t seem random, either.

On the other hand, virtually all of the large scale, Japanese builds of Maya, such as the one that graces the pages of several Gakken volumes, show a degaussing cable. One might assume that the builders had access to information or plans that we did not.

So, I turned back to my photo references, and to Lacroix and Welles. One thing that I noticed is that virtually all the illustrations, models and references indicate that the degaussing cable was mounted uniformly along the hull, just under the main deck line. Clear photos of the sisters in this regard were indeterminate, save for Chokai.

In fact, Chokai has the best photographic documentation of this detail and a simple straight line around the hull is not the reality. There are significant separations and steps in her cable, particularly along her midsection, where the hull meets the structure of the High Angle Gun Deck. As the 1942 photo below shows, the degaussing cable rises above the main deck line for the full length of the HAG deck.


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Chokai 1942, degaussing cable, starboard midship,MS #124,small.jpg
Chokai 1942, degaussing cable, starboard midship,MS #124,small.jpg [ 68.98 KiB | Viewed 1571 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:25 pm 
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The positioning of Chokai’s cable may or may not have a bearing on the placement of the cable on all of the other sisters but, I believe there is a direct correlation with Maya. Like Chokai, she did not undergo extensive reconstruction prior to start of the war, as did Takao and Atago. She was therefore grouped together with Chokai for most of the remaining prewar service.

This includes their being serviced together. Both ships were drydocked at Yokosuka in April, 1941, one right after the other. Then, again in the first two weeks of September, again at Yokosuka. It’s a certainty that their degaussing cables were added during one of these two visits, probably the latter one.

I think it reasonable to assume that two nearly identical ships, serviced at the same time at the same place, will receive near identical placement of their degaussing cables. Maybe not an absolute certainty, but I think it a reasonable assumption. Given that assumption, the photographic record becomes surprising and definitive.

Maya was severely damaged by air attack at Rabaul in November, 1943. The damage was severe enough to accelerate a planned reconstruction of her as an AA cruiser. Upon her return to Japan, her damage was photographed at Yokosuka prior to and upon entering drydock.

The photo below shows her already in drydock. Almost the whole expanse of her midsection is visible from just below her main deck and above, approximately from frames 150 to 200, perhaps 210. What is not visible is a degaussing cable. Even if it had been placed below the main deck line, even lower than expected, there is no hint of even a bracket.


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Maya damage, 1943, Fukui 2 vol set, p412 cropped.jpg
Maya damage, 1943, Fukui 2 vol set, p412 cropped.jpg [ 126.94 KiB | Viewed 1570 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:26 pm 
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More telling is the next photograph, apparently shot before entering drydock. This photo shows the portion of Maya just aft the previous photo, approximately frames 220 to 270, from the waterline on up. I’ve lightened & increased the contrast of the photo a bit, in Photoshop, to bring out any possibly hidden details. One can see portholes, porthole covers, topside damage, and crosshatching written on the original photograph denoting deformation of the hull, but no degaussing cable, brackets or any hint of such along nearly 100 feet of hull.


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Maya bomb damage, 12-5-1943 #2 cropped.jpg
Maya bomb damage, 12-5-1943 #2 cropped.jpg [ 113.17 KiB | Viewed 1570 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:29 pm 
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In my mind, the only possible explanation is that the cable was removed earlier, possibly during her August 1943 dockyard visit. This revelation (to me) might also suggest that her sisters also had their degaussing cables removed earlier than expected, giving credence to the reference illustrations that I cited at the outset of this post.

Subsequent to my posting these thoughts on another board, one of my Japanese contacts disagreed with some of my photo interpetations and conclusions. However, his interpretation is also open to debate, as he conceded. He did point out, though, that the aperture through which the degaussing cable exits the hull for external hull mounting on the Takao’s happens at the forward, starboard bulkhead of the HAG deck, hidden under the forward access ladder that rises above the main deck to the HAG deck above. It’s not easily seen in photos.

As I told him, I believe this helps make the case that the degaussing cable would then continue to run along the outside of the HAG deck on both sides, above the main deck, as we see in Chokai. Which makes it even more telling that the degaussing cable is absent in the Dec. 1943 port side view of Maya amidships.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:41 am 
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The last picture, of IJN Maya is a revelation. Not cause the obvious absence of a degaussing cable, but for the rangefinder of number 3 turret. It has the spotting windows enlarged, so this happend before the major reconstruction as an AA cruiser. So I guess Dan the turrets rangefinders and the degaussing cable might have occured during at the Yokosuka, 1943 May to repair damage from the the Battle of the Komandorski Islands.
"3 May 1943:
At Yokosuka. Battle damage repairs.

15 April 1943:
Departs Yokosuka with the DesDiv 12's IJN Shirakumo.
"

To bad we cant see if the training aiming devices on the top of the turrets are still there. If they are still there then they had them removed during the major reconstruction as an AA cruiser. Cause pictures after the reconstruction as an AA cruiser shows no signs of the training aiming device on top of the turret.
IJN Myoko IJN Tone class and IJN Takao and IJN Maya(after major reconstruction as an AA cruiser ?) the had thier own removed by mid war.

IJN Maya's picture after the econstruction as an AA cruiser.
Image
No overhangs for number 1# turret just the housing and enlarged spoting windows for number 2# and probably her number 3# turret(former 4#) was same as the 2# turret:



IJN Mogami class never had training aiming devices on the top of the 20 cm turrets while pictures of IJN Aoba fron the 1945 show no signs of training aiming devices on the top of the turrets. So Im guessing the IJN Atago and IJN Chokai(I cant find pictues of 1943 IJN Atago and IJN Chokai, Dan any help ?) had also no aiming devices on the top of the turrets after 1943.Judging by the similarities in the IJN Takao and IJN Atago, IJN Atago might also had no training aiming devices on the top of the 20 cm turrets like IJN Takao. But still, about the IJN Chokai the issue is obscure as I havnt see a picture of her after 1943.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:15 am 
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Good point about the timing of the change to her turret rangefinders, Atma.

Unfortunately, I can find no photos of either Chokai or Atago, circa 1943. There is a nice silhouette view of Atago in April. 1944 in Gakken #16 that shows her wearing the enlarged rangefinders.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:51 am 
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How about the training aiming devices on the top of the 20 cm turrets ?
Anyway thanks Dan :)


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