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I can;t recall exactly where i came across that development for Atago. And, it's nto a certainty as I believe there is conflicting info. It would apply to her late war appearance.

Well, Chokai for me would be interesting. Atago or Maya would seem more likely, since the hulls are the same.

Thank you kindly, Dan.
By the way, anyone have tried/used those turrets for IJN Takao class, from Voyager in 1/350.Any comments ?
Link:http://www.spruebrothers.com/Nexternal/1350-voyager-ww2-ijn-203mm-50cal-nendo-main-gun-for-takao-vnd0502.htm


Edit:Quick question, in the book "Japanese Cruiser of the Pacific War" by L. & W. in the page 330 and regarding IJN Maya modifications to AA cruiser it mention that two single mounts of 7.7 - mm Lewis machine guns where fitted on both sides on the AA comand platform.
Does anyone knows where exactly was their position ?
Thanks in advance.

I tend to doubt what L & W has to say on this point (the book actually does contain a handful of errors and omissions, hard as it is to believe:-) ). Maya's revised AA command platform held two sets of search binoculars forward, and two sets of AA (25mm) MG directors aft. No room for weaponry.

Besides, the 7.7mm was totally ineffective against aircraft. At that point in the war, there is no weapon lighter than a 13mm aboard a major IJN warship.

Back to the point about closed off openings ahead of Atago's catapults: Some studies by Toshifumi Kimoto posted at his Vanguard website prior to his Takao 1941 build, display photos of Atago as such. http://homepage2.nifty.com/vanguard/intro/main5.htm

The top photo below is of Atago 1942 from his website; though I am not certain which photograph the crop is from. The second photo of Atago late 1941 is also shown on his website; this version is from Maru Special #124. The photo is sometimes mistakenly reffered to as Takao. The seemingly camo paint job was caused by water marks on the original negative.

It has ocurred to me that the openings could have been closed off by canvas coverings for whatever reason. The appearance is pretty flush, though. There isn't a good late war photo of Atago that I know of to confirm this appearance.

Thanks for the information Dan, one last quiestion, the crane at the torpedo loading opening was aft or forward of the opening ? Fujimi's kit has at the aft, but 1939 trials pictures show it at the forward side of the opening. Is there a chance that the crane was moved in the aft, after the 1943 repairs from the US raids ?
Also did you notice that IJN Takao, IJN Myoko and IJN Aoba had the spoting windows in the number 2# turrets significantly larger by 1945 ? Did the same happend to IJN Tone too ?
Thanks in advance.

Regarding the loading davits - are we talking about Takao or Maya? Postwar photos of Takao show the reload opening to retain its shape so, I would assume that her davits remain in the forward postion. Skulski might concur.

Not sure exactly what you mean by spotting windows - the observer cupola?

I was referring to the rangefinder windows of number 2# turret of IJN Takao, IJN Myoko an IJN Aoba.
This is depicting clearly from a piture you posted earlier in the thread from a British film showing IN Takao in Singapore, and pictures of IJN Myoko and IJN Aoba after the war.
They all seems to got significant enlarged openings at 1945 from pictrures after the war. I was wondering if the same happned to IJN Tone too. Maybe the enlarged rangefinder windows was a result from a return to the tactic of using their main guns as AA by 1945.
Thanks in advance.

I just got the new or shall I say "new" IJN Maya from Pit Road. The basic kit is the same, it got all the parts that the stantard kit got, main guns, main mast, AA and Light AA etc, plus new parts for the main guns new parts for the AA and new boats and other various small items + photo etc forf the crane, ctapult and for the forward mast. In my humble opinion, it sucks, the hull is a fact that is wrong and the bridge is crap. the extra parts in an Aoshima IJN Maya will be a better choice.The kit cost 70 dollars or 50 euros. Stay away !
Lets wait for Fujimi to release at last an accurate IJN Maya(I prefer IJN Chokai thats my sin !) for 30 dollars/22 euros, like the new IJN Takao.
I think I will sell my kit in my store, and not assemble it, it was a let down really.
Thats all : )

By the way, the main guns are better than Fujimi one's but the barrels are not.

Edit:70 freaking dollars !

I was unimpressed by the original PitRoad Maya (lots of incorrect bridge details) so, I wasn't even considering this one. I happen to be building the Aoshima Maya now (on and off) and have almost finished the bridge so, I'll just stick to it.

This is a good view of Atago's #2 viewfinder apertures. I don't see Takao's as any different at the end of the war

Just a profile view of a 1942 or 1944 (if any available) with a 1945 IJN Takao in Singapore, you will see the difference in the number 2# rangefinder.
Same with IJN Myoko and IJN Aoba.

Edit:Check page 13 in this thread of IJN Takao in Singapore, your pictures confim that Dan. Check the rangefinder number 2# turret.

I agree; you are correct. Comparison of Takao 1945, with Takao/Atago 1939 and Atago 1942 indicates that the hood was likely enlarged sometime after 1942. In fact, though blurry, photos of both Chokai and Maya 1944 appear to show enlarged #2 rangefinder hoods as well. So, the change for the class happened sometime within that two year interval.

Maybe it did improve optics. Good call. Will have to check the other classes.

I change my statement for the Pit-Road's IJN Maya. The 20 cm turrets are inferior to Fujimi ones, after a night comparing drawnings etc.Fujimi's one have more depth in detail and some small items on Pit-Road's are missing. Pit-Road's turrets dont even have the excercise aiming device!
And I freaking brought this let down for 60 euros/70 dollars... Anyone interest in a trade ? Pm me !
Anyway, back at the topic for the changes on turrets. Skulski in his book state also the excercise aiming device was removed sometime in 1944, besides the rangefinder overhangs of number 1# turret. I cant find a clear picture that confirms that, but his book got a mistake too.
Dan's picture of IJN Takao in Singapore harbor after 1945 show that IJN Takao had the rangefinder in number 1# turret, but without the overhangs, Skulski states in his book that the rangefinder was completely removed, wich the picture proves wrong.
Now, for the enlarged #2 turret rangefinder hoods both Fujimi and Hasegawa gives that option for the IJN Myoko class but not for the IJN Aoba and IJN Takao.Fujimi in IJN Takao kit gives only the normal rangefinder hoods for 2# turret wich ius noram if the ship is a 1944 build. Hasegawa for IJN Kinugasa wich is a 1942-1941 built, gives the enlarged #2 rangefinder hoods wich I guess is wrong, cause IJN Kinugasa was gone in late 1942, and never recieved that.
Trials pictures confirm that.Also IJN Aoba early in war got the normal size hoods.
Hasegawa also gives enlarged rangefinder hoods for 3# turret for IJN Aoba and IJN Kinugasa.Is there a picture of IJN Aoba's 3# turret in Kure harbor after the war. ?
Is there a confirmation that also IJN Takao and IJN Myoko got on her 4# turret an enlarged rangefinder hood ?
And I insist that the enlarged rangefinder hood was only present in 1945, after the ships was used as AA floating battery.
So I guess also IJN Tone, IJN Sakawa and IJN Oyodo got them, but Im still unclear on that matter, can aynone post more clear pictures of those 3 ships after the war, Im sure there is some clear pictures of IJN Sakawa.
IJN Ashigara and IJN Haguro was gone by mid 1945, so I guess never got the enlarged rangefinder hood.

Edit:Gilber posted a picture in IJN Light Cruiser thread of IJN Sakawa after the war, and in colour. It seems IJN Sakawa didnt had enlarged rangefinder hood(s).

I don't have a lot of time so, this is what I have come up with:

Beam/sideview photos of Atago, Maya (Gakken #16), Chokai, Myoko (Gakken #60) in early and late 1944 clearly show enlarged rangefinder hoods for both #2 & 4 turrets. Photos of both classes as late as 1943 show no change so I believe, the change came in the 2nd round of wartime refits (as L & W refers to this period) from 12/43 - 3/44. Neither L&W nor Skulski touch on this change so, they apparently missed it. I believe that Aoba would get this as well, but only fior #2 turret. The change appears to apply only to the superimposed turrets.

OTOH, I tend to doubt that either the Mogami/Suzuya sisters or the Tones received them if only because their rangefinder hoods were already enlarged when compared to the earlier D & E type turrrets of the earlier classes. I doubt the Aganos received them either. Will address the CL thread separately, on other matters, when time allows.

As I posted in the IJN Myoko thread the pictures I got is all from 1940 till junary 1944(and there is no evidence of enlarged rangefinder hoods on those ships I mention there), and no post 1942 picture of IJN Myoko. My pjotographic reference to IJN Takao class is limited to 1945 post war photos of Takao and various '30's pictures.
But I think we can safely say that the enlarged rangefinder hoods on IJN Kinugasa was never fitted or in the IJN Aoba during 1942, so for a Hasegawa 1942 IJN Kinugasa(or an early war IJN Aoba) in 1/700 the rangefinder hoods needs to be replaced.
And according to the picture that I posted in the IJN Myoko thread of IJN Myoko number 4# turret, I guess IJN Takao also had enlarged rangefinder hoods on her 4# turret too.At least in 1945.

Edit:All this issue with the rangefinders and the heavy cruisers is starting to pissing me off. Japanese Navy shall settle down on a standard pattern, and make my modeling life a bit more easy.

This photo of IJN Aoba in Kure harbor show number 3# turret with extended rangefinder hoods so the modification was not only on the superimposed turrets.
Link:

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Link2:

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Edit:Too bad we dont have a Furutaka /Aoba class thread.

Ok, then

Atma, on p.7 of this thread is the beam shot of Maya 1944, and on p.13 one of those of Chokai 1944. In both, the tops of the #4 turret rangefinder hood is higher then the housing itself. Just compare with # 2 turret. Same thing.

Thank you very much Dan
The Chokai picture is too blurry I cant say for sure. But the IJN Maya seems to have larger than normal rangefinder hoods. On both number 1# and number 4# turret. I suppose only IJN Maya got them?
Cause she was intented for heavy AA and the rest of the IJN Myoko and IJN Takao class got them only for the 1945 role of AA battery, same with IJN Aoba. Its just a guess.

While none of the Chokai shots are crystal clear (there are 3) , I can easily see the height of the #4 rangefinder hood in all them, tall. As is Atago's. IMHO, by ealry 1944, all of the remaing CAs had the new hoods on #2 & 4 mounts, excepting Aoba's #3 mount.

So start one...

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

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Any available pictures of IJN Atago after 1942 online, Dan ?
Thanks in advance.