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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:00 pm 
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SilverGhost wrote:
Mutsuo Sasaki wrote:
1) I think you gentlemen are probably forgetting about the blast impact of torpdedoes on the starboard side hull by Fujjinami.Will the degausssing cable remain then? I shouldn´t think so.


If cable ripped off from starboard as the result of blast impact of torpdedoes (on the starboard side hull by Fujjinami). Why cable ripped off from portside?
The torpedoes hit only to starboard. Or not?

SilverGhost wrote:
Mutsuo Sasaki wrote:
1) I think you gentlemen are probably forgetting about the blast impact of torpdedoes on the starboard side hull by Fujjinami.Will the degausssing cable remain then? I shouldn´t think so.


-------------------
I bet destroyer Fujinami sent several torpedoes to scuttle Chokai, was the starboard only, to make sure she sinks to the bottom quickly.
We can see Chokai received a bomg or a shell hit,too at the portside stern. Highly probably both the cable and the cover got blown off by this. It would be difficult for the cable to withstand enormous water pressure by it around this section.

Can also see some coiled wires are ripped open at the portside,and remaining. Battle damage under the air raid will be the cause or what else.

mucho,


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:09 pm 
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Mutsuo Sasaki wrote:
I came across probably a misleading image of R/V Petrel when released last year.
My first impression was that the shape of bow did not look like that of Takao class.
Ofc the tip of the bow is stuck into the sand bottom.The degaussing cable is also in the sand.

cheers,


I think, here may be 2 variants at Maya:
1. The degaussing cable is also in the sand
2. The degaussing cable were removed during modernization

For example, if the cable was located at Maya's bow like Chokai and Atago, then we would see the remains of cable on the Maya's bow at the photo from the sea depth.
But I don't know how really cable was located at Takao's bow.

Image

There is a possibility that on the bow of the sisterships there were 2 options for the location of the cable (Like 2 options of pattern of linoleum deck stripes (Maya&Takao vs Atago&Chokai)). This is just my guess and so far they have no reliable arguments. Skulsky drew a cable on Takao's bow in his drawings at Anatomy and Kagero 3D, not like in the photo of Chokai.

Andrew

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:19 pm 
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SilverGhost wrote:
Mutsuo Sasaki wrote:
Some elements of importance were taken into considerations yesterday night.
Hiragana letters of the ship name are 50 cm below the deck. Size of the letters are : 60cm tall.
The wedge line of the outer hull plate is 150cm below the deck.
The streak circled with orange color is a natural phenomenon? or artificially made?
The cable with cover might have been layed here, and it conincides with the line of this white streak.

Maya´s degaussing cable will be like this;therefore it is impossible to see the cable in the photo of the midter section of the hull. I should think that the cable ´s not being visible does not follow that there´s no cable attached to the hull.

cheers,


I think the streak circled with orange color is the top edge of outer plate.

I agree with you, that Maya's cable was located in middle lower than at Chokai. This is noticeable at the photo after the damage in January 1943.


-----------------------------------
hi again.'
The wedge line of the outer plate is 1,5 meter from the upper deck level. The whitish streak lies ca. 1,2meter from the upper deck leve. That´s 30 cm too high as it´s wedge line, is my view.

The cable of 9 coiled wire being 25 cm wide, then comes thickness of the cover material + margins. Fyi,the diagram from cruiser Tone,1940.
mucho


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:38 pm 
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Mutsuo Sasaki wrote:
-------------------
I bet destroyer Fujinami sent several torpedoes to scuttle Chokai, was the starboard only, to make sure she sinks to the bottom quickly.
We can see Chokai received a bomg or a shell hit,too at the portside stern. Highly probably both the cable and the cover got blown off by this. It would be difficult for the cable to withstand enormous water pressure by it around this section.

Can also see some coiled wires are ripped open at the portside,and remaining. Battle damage under the air raid will be the cause or what else.

mucho,


The close bomb rupture on the port side of the stern explains jamming of the rudders and possibly a breakdown of the cable from the portside near sterm.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 5:54 pm 
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Mutsuo Sasaki wrote:
[
hi again.'
The wedge line of the outer plate is 1,5 meter from the upper deck level. The whitish streak lies ca. 1,2meter from the upper deck leve. That´s 30 cm too high as it´s wedge line, is my view.

The cable of 9 coiled wire being 25 cm wide, then comes thickness of the cover material + margins. Fyi,the diagram from cruiser Tone,1940.
mucho


If look at other wedge lines at hull - they looks like that whitish streak at stern.
sludge that settles on all horizontal and protruding surfaces makes them light or white

These 4 cruisers were made by 4 different shipyards. So they can have some differences. I would not be surprised if the hull theory, the size of the sheathing sheets could vary depending on the shipyard
For example - Takao had another shape of anchor hawse unlike other ships - Maya, Chokai, Atago.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:01 pm 
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It’s a mystery for me why R/V Petrel found Maya, but they still haven’t found the remains of Atago. But they lie at the bottom very close and for R/V Petrel it would not be a problem to shoot a second cruiser. It would be interesting to see the photographs of Atago at the sea depth.

The only excuse that R/V Petrel never found Atago was that Atago could lie in the territorial waters of Philippines. As far as I remember, R/V Petrel had problems with resolving searches in territorial waters and there was even a scandal about this.

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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 6:30 am 
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The show must go on; ;D If one can spot tiny biss holes of the cable stoppers,it accounts for the presence of the cable before it gets blown off at the time of the air raid and the scuttling by Fujinami´s torpedoes(Chokai) And the mystery will be solved.

cheers,
mucho,


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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 7:29 am 
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A surviving crew´s story has it that IJN changed numbers of bisses of degaussing cable holders from 2 to 4, since the cable +cover was vulnerable to ocean wave esp at high sea. They had to install anew after a voyage.
Chokai will not be an exception.

cheers,
mucho


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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 11:09 am 
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hi,
Am about to revise my thoughts about Chokai. As a matter of fact the so-called the top wedge-line of the patches of steel is hiden behind the cable cover, and quite invisible. It will be the cable cover itself.

Another decisive thing is ,the 9x coiled wires are seen ruptured and epxposed. (the nr.1 torpedoe area) Fom this it is understood that the cover keeps it´s form partially at the portside here.

The top wedge line of the patches becomes invisible on the model,too. Can´t do it otherwise.
Obviously IJN changed the cover material to another one, as compared with the year 1942 period.

cheers,

mucho,


Attachments:
Chokai portside Cc.jpg
Chokai portside Cc.jpg [ 64.35 KiB | Viewed 401 times ]
ASIWatch - 発見 -[14]ccc.jpg
ASIWatch - 発見 -[14]ccc.jpg [ 154.57 KiB | Viewed 401 times ]
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 1:03 pm 
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And as to how to circumvent the catapult supporting trunk will be probably like this. Probably.
mucho


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ASIIMG_0318cc.jpg
ASIIMG_0318cc.jpg [ 58.87 KiB | Viewed 391 times ]
ASIWatch - 発見 -[6].jpg
ASIWatch - 発見 -[6].jpg [ 37.57 KiB | Viewed 391 times ]
ASIIMG_0320cc.jpg
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 1:57 pm 
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Excellent discussion, Mucho.


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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 1:59 pm 
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Mutsuo Sasaki wrote:
And as to how to circumvent the catapult supporting trunk will be probably like this. Probably.
mucho


Hi Mutsuo,

thanks for sharing your knowledge! :thumbs_up_1:

Beautiful model, do you have or onfos on it, please? Scale and so on?

TIA :wave_1:

Best wishes
Bernd.

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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2020 5:24 pm 
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109 wrote:
Mutsuo Sasaki wrote:
And as to how to circumvent the catapult supporting trunk will be probably like this. Probably.
mucho


Hi Mutsuo,

thanks for sharing your knowledge! :thumbs_up_1:
Beautiful model, do you have or onfos on it, please? Scale and so on?
TIA :wave_1:

Best wishes
Bernd.

----------------

Hello, Bernd. Was supposed to ship her together with Aoba 1944,,both at 1/100.Full scratched.Started in 2017, slated to finish in late 2020.
Pics are to be taken in a Tokyo studio in Japan, then,the Corona pandemic is preventing me from shipping. :((

Dan, It was an intriguingly challenging pastime to do over a decade :)

mucho,


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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 9:42 am 
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Only one decade? :big_grin:


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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 9:57 am 
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The very last, maybei
This may fit in with each other: I should think this is the very cable with the cover, but not the wedge of the steel patch. It is behind of the cable,therefore unseen.

When the above will follow, Fujinami must have sent torpedoes to the hull of the bow section where the deg. cable is now gone.
Don´t fancy doing this to the area where "souls" of the fallen crews still dwell in,and for good.
Battle report of the scuttling order of Chokai by Fujinami says about the action only, not mentioning how many torps were used to sink Chokai.

cheers,
mucho


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鳥海_舷外側面 及 上部平面Accscuttling.jpg
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ASIIMG_0321nyccc.jpg
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 10:49 am 
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[quote="Dan K"]Only one decade?:cool_1:

I deleted things older than a decade from my file.:cool_2:
Ofc you´re welcome to do without the cable to a new Chokai model.
And are always welcome to use my counterproofs if needed. :cool_2:
It may be nice to get exposed to things invisible to human eyes does not follow it is absent, was the lesson,hopefully or not.

cheers & banzai,


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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 4:01 pm 
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Hello, Bernd. Was supposed to ship her together with Aoba 1944,,both at 1/100.Full scratched.Started in 2017, slated to finish in late 2020.
Pics are to be taken in a Tokyo studio in Japan, then,the Corona pandemic is preventing me from shipping. :((

Dan, It was an intriguingly challenging pastime to do over a decade :)

mucho

Thanks! Looking forward to see some pictures one day :thumbs_up_1: :wave_1:

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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 4:03 pm 
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One question for the IJN expert: were the main gun houses in terms of shape and dimensions of the 8 in guns of TAKAO class and TONE class similar?

I am looking for detailed scale drawings of TONE class.

TIA,

Bernd.

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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 9:10 pm 
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The Takao class sported Model E turrets, while the Tones sported E3s. Thre are some minor differences. I will try to post something tomorrow from the GPS cruiser volume.


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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 11:09 pm 
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Dan K wrote:
The Takao class sported Model E turrets, while the Tones sported E3s. Thre are some minor differences. I will try to post something tomorrow from the GPS cruiser volume.


Thanks a lot!

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