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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:13 pm 
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ATTENTION 1/350 ATLANTA CLASS MODEL BUILDERS

I have no idea whether my periodic whining, sniveling, begging and pleading to ISW about the absence of a decent 1/350 Atlanta class model had any impact on the following news. Having built 5 of their Sims class DDs there is a slim chance I am one of their better customers but I have no idea whether that is correct or whether it is a factor.

In any event a few weeks ago I sent an email request for a single piece Atlanta hull if they could help me with the current BWN kit project which has a 4 piece hull, 2 upper and 2 lower. The top 2 went together fairly well the bottom 2 are a disaster. I specifically asked them for a single piece hull if possible or a 2 piece YKM type if not.

Turns out my request arrived during the final stages of preparation to release an entire 1/350 Atlanta class model. The kit is a brand new kit not a re design of prior editions. It has a single piece hull that includes the superstructure units. I have a photo of the preliminary design of the hull if anyone wants to see it let me know, if they agree to its release I will email you the photo. Suffice to say it looks much better than the BWN/YKM equivalents. Jon told me today during a phone conversation the kit should be out within a few months and that something should be on their web site on this topic fairly soon. I do not know which if any of the 4 ships their kit is intended to represent.

I asked for 2 hulls, one for the BWN kit in progress and one for another YKM kit I have sitting here. They should arrive within a few weeks. When they do I will try to post photos of them.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 10:50 pm 
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The ISW hulls have arrived.

Having direct experience with both BWN/YKM hulls, my opinion for what it is worth their hull is light years better than prior kits. It is a single piece with most but not all of the superstructure units attached to the hull. Approx. the top 20% are separate parts for the superstructure units. There is very little flash and excess resin anywhere on them. I have not prepared either hull for painting yet but my guess is one can be sanded and the little excess resin removed in 15-20 minutes tops. The anchor holes are correctly located unlike the prior kits. No big deal unless you are trying to duplicate the Juneau camo scheme. The armor belt is different from prior models and seems to more closely match photos of the ships. The bow seems to be a close match for photos also unlike the prior kits. Overall for anyone who prefers to build a full hull model of one of these ships if the rest of the kit matches the hull, and I suspect it will, this will be by far the best ISW kit I have seen. Then again I have only seen 3 of them. I do not know if they will offer a water line version, I would not want to attempt to saw this large and fairly heavy piece of resin.

Highly recommended for anyone else with an interest in the Atlanta class.

I will try to post photos of a hull tomorrow night once I am back from Mosquitocon 25. If I have my usual luck trying to post a photo and it is not on by this time tomorrow email me direct and I will send you photos.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 11:21 pm 
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I just tried to post a photo of the ISW Atlanta class hull, got a message it was too big.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:10 am 
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Images Courtesy of Fred Branyan;

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Looks like an update to the old Gulfstream kit if my memory serves me,

Matt

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1/350 USS Portland CA-33 1942
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 1:47 am 
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1/700 or 1/350???

Or some other scale?

I would like a waterline Atlanta (that didn't require carving, cutting, and adding to).

MB

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1/700 (All Fall 1942):
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USS San Francisco
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:06 pm 
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The hull in the photographs has some improvements over BWN kit, the such as the bow knuckle. How do we alert the supplier to correct inaccuracies? The bow bulwark needs to extend aft to end above the hawsepipe, and needs the ports for mooring lines and the paravane chains. How did the supplier get those wrong?
I too prefer a waterline kit.
What are the kit hull lengths overall and at the waterline? The BWN hull length overall equals 1/350 of the actual waterline length.
Which ship in which year does this kit represent?
I'm not trying to be a curmudgeon. I'm jaded by the failure of the industry ever to provide even one accurate kit of the Atlanta/Oakland class in either 1/350 or 1/700.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 9:09 pm 
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This is 1/350.

ISW will "short pour" a hull so it's approximately waterline for you - you'll have to sand it or cut it the rest of the way. I actually find - if you have access to a band saw - to get the full hull kit and then just cut it down to where you want it.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:20 am 
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Fred,

It is extremely easy to post photos on the forum. There is a size limit of 1200x1200 pixels and a file size of no more than 150 Kbytes.

1. Open Microsoft Paint - it is supplied with every version of Windows.

2. Open the drawing in Paint - or Copy/Paste it into Paint. The size of the image in pixels appears below the image.

3. In the "Home" tab click the "Resize" icon. In the "Resize and Skew" dialog select the "Pixel" option, be sure the "Maintain Aspect Ratio" option is checked, and enter a new width or height. I have found a width of 800-900 pixels works fine.

4. Save the picture as a JPEG file type. Save it in a location known to you so you can find it again!

5. After saving the file the file size in bytes will appear below the picture. It should be under 150 KB.

6. If the file size is too large either reduce the pixel dimensions as in step 3 above or use the "Select" box and "Crop" tools to cut away unnecessary parts of the image (the picture does not have to be 3x2 horizontal x vertical) and save the file again.

7. Start a post in the Forum, and at the bottom you will see the "Filename" section. Click "Browse" and locate your drawing. Select it and click the "Open" button. The Forum will tell you if the file is accepted. If not, reduce the file size more as in steps 1-4 above.

That's all there is to it.

Phil

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:59 am 
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In the photos the armor belt is too thick and too long. It shielded the main propulsion spaces. The upper edge traced the second deck. The mold designer can get accurate plans from The Floating Drydock. If the hull has to extend below the waterline, then molding a trace of the waterline would be used-friendly.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:31 pm 
Michael Potter wrote:
In the photos the armor belt is too thick and too long. It shielded the main propulsion spaces. The upper edge traced the second deck. The mold designer can get accurate plans from The Floating Drydock. If the hull has to extend below the waterline, then molding a trace of the waterline would be used-friendly.



You mean these?

Image

Jon Warneke
Commander Models, Inc.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 3:59 pm 
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Phil thanks for the info on posting photos. Matt thanks for your info on POSTIMG. I will attempt one or both the next time I try to put one here. Unless the wife of CV 6 org's Arnold Olson finds a CL 52 photo in his collection that is not too likely to happen.

Model builders I have a few photos here of my test shot of the starboard Juneau hull pattern on the BWN upper hull. If it will be of any help to you let me know I will email them to you. The masks were done by hand using the 6/1/42 photo, using Tamiya wide masking tape and drawing the pattern on the tape. I would score it about 80-90 for accuracy.

As for the commentary above about the bulwark being too small and armor belt being too thick on the ISW hull keep in mind I have the item in my hands not photos. I also have probably every CL 51 class photo that is on line. As for as I am concerned the armor belt is the perfect width/thickness. Compared to the actual ship photos it might be a tad too thin for thickness but I do not plan on getting my microscope or calipers or ruler out to confirm that. It is close enough to perfection to satisfy my anal standards for perfection. By contrast the BWN/YKM armor belts are at least 2X as thick and do not follow the contour of the main deck as does the belt on the ISW kit. They are garbage compared to this ISW hull. As for the bulwark, comparing the ISW hull I have here to actual photos that also looks perfect. For anyone who disagrees, that is why the Force gave us super glue/plastic sheet and scrap PE.

As you can see from the post directly above, no need to worry about getting in touch with the manufacturer. I alerted him to the alleged malfunctions, and I suspect he will visit the site periodically.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:23 pm 
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As for the armor belt being too thick, suggest you take a look at the photos of the San Diego launching on navsource. To my eyeballs the thickness on the ISW hull is an exact duplicate. The view in both launching photos shows the thickness, a little easier to detect in the red area below the water line. Also shows them curved up to follow the taper of the main deck exactly as portrayed on the ISW hull.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:17 pm 
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Fred, I'm impressed and interested that you may introduce the first accurate kit of these ships in any scale in styrene or resin. The actual armor belt was 3.75" at its thickest.

More power to you. I'll buy at least one.

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If humanity wishes to preserve a planet similar to that on which civilization developed and to which life on Earth is adapted, [atmospheric] CO2 will need to be reduced from its current 385 ppm to at most 350 ppm.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:47 am 
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This is a problem when style meets fact, or drawings taken as gospel. While I appreciate the efforts of our talented draftsmen, folks should understand that creating accurate drawings is not unlike building a model. Indeed, back in the day of drafting machine and triangle, drawings were more tedious for me than building. I can see what Michael is talking about here...

Image

Likewise,the armor belt would scale out to an ever so slight shade over .010" thick. The models belt looks considerably heavier than that.

To some degree, I think folks have lost perspective. Compared to 1/700, 1/350 seems large, but in the "scale" of things, it is miniscule. So as much as you would like to have these details emphasized, they do look out of scale to many of us. Look along the waterline, you can barely make out the armor belt. Not a very overwhelming feature.

Paul

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 11:06 am 
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Photography can be tricky and yes the armor belt is VERY thin in scale, almost not noticeable in 1/700 scale, but at times it can be quite visible.

Image

Other times it is hardly noticeable even on the same ship in a photo taken only a month later.

Image


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:09 pm 
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I expect to have the hull painted in camo within 2-4 weeks. Then the deck. Then the superstructure.

I do not do WIPs.

Anyone desiring progress photos to include perhaps a close range photo of the allegedly too thick belt contact me direct via email. Unless I get very lucky in the search for fall 42 photos I will probably not be on this site very often for awhile.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:10 pm 
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Rick,
Actually, the main purpose of the photo was to address Michael's previous post where he mentioned ..."The bow bulwark needs to extend aft to end above the hawsepipe". The armor belt comment was sort of secondary. And my comments were only meant to temper the remark from Jon and Fred. There is no intention here to start a war, they are simply observations from personal experience and preference.

That being said, the hull casting looks very nice, much better than I have ever received. I am used to pits galore, missing corners, half cast shields etc. If I could be assured of an equal casting, I would be tempted to order. But it's always been like Charlie Brown and the football ...even when they send a "replacement".

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:13 pm 
pbudzik wrote:
Rick,
Actually, the main purpose of the photo was to address Michael's previous post where he mentioned ..."The bow bulwark needs to extend aft to end above the hawsepipe". The armor belt comment was sort of secondary. And my comments were only meant to temper the remark from Jon and Fred. There is no intention here to start a war, they are simply observations from personal experience and preference.

That being said, the hull casting looks very nice, much better than I have ever received. I am used to pits galore, missing corners, half cast shields etc. If I could be assured of an equal casting, I would be tempted to order. But it's always been like Charlie Brown and the football ...even when they send a "replacement".


Paul


So Paul, just so I understand. My demonstrating that I used the plans suggested needed tempering how? As for the bow bulwark, as you can see from this photo of San Juan:

Image

if you run a straight line across the bow from hawse pipe to hawse pipe, the bow bulwark terminates exactly where the plans show they terminate, forward of the hawse pipes not at, and those are the plans that were used. Now, since that is resolved, shall we get back to the armor belt that is .01" too thick, or have we found something else even more inconsequential to pic at?

Oh yeah, almost forgot. Don't concern yourself with your last comment. It won't be an issue for you...

Jon


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:25 pm 
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Jon,
I'm sorry you have taken such offense. Yes, you nailed the plans, but the plans aren't correct and the photo you posted shows the base of the fillet at the hawse pipe - further back than the model. It's not worth arguing over, I'm just commenting on both Michael's posting and your sarcastic posting of the drawing. In effect you are both wrong. And again, as I also said, had I not had such bad luck with previous resin hulls, I would buy one. The issues with the armor belt and bulwarks would not be a deal breaker for me, I would be the first to defend you on that. The armor belt can be easily reduced and I could give a rat about the small difference in the bulwarks. I think most board members know me for correcting issues rather than hyperbolic rants about small errors like several on here seem to revel in. I don't think Micheal's tone rose to that level. I understand your sensitivity to constant complaints (as many manufacturers unfortunately have to endure), but I don't think Michael or I were nasty.

As to my comment on my past experience with the quality of previous cast hulls, I would be happy to share photos of exactly what I have received. I am not in the habit of posting companies failures in public rants. I can assure you I have understated the problems. I have worked with several well respected resin casters and I know what amazing things can be done and how demanding it is to be constantly making new molds. I also have a pretty good idea when something gets fluffed off.

My apologies again,
Paul

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:29 pm 
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A new photo of USS SAN DIEGO (CL-53) taken in likely September 1942 by USS SAN FRANCISCO (CA-38). I looked through sources of photos of SAN DIEGO, Navsource, NHHC, SAN DIEGO/ATLANTA reunion websites, etc. and didn't find this image.

I found this very nice nearly broadside photo (80-G-391485) of USS SAN DIEGO by complete luck while at NARA II last Saturday going through random 80-G collection boxes. There was a group of photos taken by USS SAN FRANCISCO with unreliable dates. The SAN DIEGO photo had an April 1943 date, which had to be wrong. I had found earlier in the week in BuShips files for SAN DIEGO that her SG radar was installed by USS DIXIE in late January 1942 after the SG radar was removed from USS MINNEAPOLIS. And other photos dated February 1943 show SAN DIEGO with a 5N painted hull. In cross checking what I can in DANFS and Task Force databases, the only time SAN FRANCISCO and SAN DIEGO were together appears to be in September (and maybe August) 1942. I'll need to check War Diaries for SAN FRANCISCO to get a listing of dates she was with SAN DIEGO. SAN DIEGO's War Diaries I have been in are really poor and don't often mention what ships she was with.

Image

Also, I came across among the same photos taken by SAN FRANCISCO, was one of USS ATLANTA (CL-51) that has been in the NHHC collection for sometime, but this is the first time I have seen the same photo at NARA. The mounting card caption for 80-G-391482 didn't have a date for the photo, but the NHHC version of this photo, #NH97807, has 16 October 1942 as the date she was alongside SAN FRANCISCO.

Image


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