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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:26 pm 
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I thought I had posted this earlier today, but I believe I hit new topic instead of reply. Anyway, in trying to find some reference material for a Aoshima Katori that I'm honing my 1/700 "skills" on, I found this up-grade set from Five Star on their website. http://www.fstarmodel.com/en/pd.jsp?id=272&_jcp=2
I'm not about to spend 4 times what I paid for the model itself (which is pretty crude in terms of detail ) But, I thought I could use these pics as a bit of an idea what extra things I could add to spruce it up. If you click on Finished Models, there is a selection of models built with their sets, and perhaps be an inspiration to some on this forum. Here's hoping that this is useful information for IJN fans :wave_1: Doug


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:53 pm 
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It's good idea. Similar views can be had with other such sets from both Five Star, Flyhawk, and Rainbow.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:31 am 
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dadedicos wrote:
I'm not about to spend 4 times what I paid for the model itself (which is pretty crude in terms of detail )

Do you have one of the old Aoshima kits or one of the new ones of the Katori class?

Here are photos of the new kit:
http://www.modellmarine.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4315:aoshima-japanischer-leichter-kreuzer-kashima-1700&catid=7:aos

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:09 am 
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Maxim
No, I have the older version
Attachment:
975_rd.jpg
975_rd.jpg [ 29.84 KiB | Viewed 1017 times ]

The newer version looks very nice, but I can use this older one as a test bed for improving my detailing and modification skills. My eyesight and dexterity have diminished in the 30+ years since my last foray into 1/700 ships. Thanks for your interest!! Doug


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:20 am 
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For the old kit I would really not use a Five Star set.

Perhaps there is something from GMM or Tom's Model Works?

http://www.goldmm.com/ships/gmsajncd.htm

http://www.tomsmodelworks.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23_26&products_id=287

Some links with photos of the real ship:
http://blog.livedoor.jp/irootoko_jr/archives/872184.html
http://p.twipple.jp/UVXNa

Drawings:
http://www.defence.org.cn/article-10-15879.html

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:15 am 
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Thanx for the links Maxim. No worries with Five Star set on the older Aoshima model, not gonna happen! Doug


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:26 pm 
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Question guys.. So I'm planing on doing a 1/350 IJN Tama and IJN Kuma in there 1944 builds. My question is, How close was IJN Kuma, in aperiance to IJN Tama? What was Kumas layout? I've found plenty on Tama but little on late war Kuma..


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:56 pm 
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The most obvious thing would be the Stacks.

The Kuma had flared stacks, while the Tama's kind of narrowed at the top.

Both were Kuma-Class CLs.

–– The Tama, in Oct 1943, had the No. 5 & 7 5.5" guns removed, and a Type 89, Twin-127mm HA Gun was mounted in the previous No. 7 Gun position. The catapult was also landed (if it had not been previously)

It also received around 18 additional Type 96 25mm AA Guns (4 Triple, and 6 Single - making for a total of 4x3, 2x2, and 6x1), and a Type 21 radar above the bridge.

I am pretty sure that the Type 96 25mm were outfitted as:

• 1x2 each abreast the forward stack (just slightly forward of it, with the forward splinter-shielding that protected it starting right at the edge of the well-deck with the Torpedoes).

• 2x3 each on the Port/Starboard just after of the Ship's Boats.

• 1x1 each to P/S just abaft the two forward guns (and forward of the bridge superstructure), and then 2x1 P/S on the fantail.
Note: I am not at all certain of the 6x1 Type 96 Positions.

Also, I do not know if it still carried any Type 93 13.5mm AA guns. I do not think she did, but I just don't know, as I have only been paying attention to the Cruisers in the Southern and Mid Pacific.

But the Tama left Yokosuka on 24 December, 1943.


–– The Kuma had the No.5 5.5" gun and Catapult landed in Nov 1943, and 2x3 Type 96 25mm AA guns added to the aft of the boats (2x3 and 2x2 - with the 2x2 in the same location as the Tama).

This would have been her outfit when sunk in Jan 1944.

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So....

It looks as if these are the differences between the two


MB

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:37 am 
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This might also help.


Attachments:
Kuma, Tama, Kiso 1944 line drawings, MASMS v29 sm.jpg
Kuma, Tama, Kiso 1944 line drawings, MASMS v29 sm.jpg [ 183.75 KiB | Viewed 799 times ]
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:51 pm 
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Dan, what is the source on that?

If it is accurate, then several other online sources need to modify their accounts of the Kuma and Tama, which state it never got the Type 89 Twin 127mm, as well as contradicting that it kept its Catapult (Like Combined Fleet).

See: 1 Nov, 1943:

http://www.combinedfleet.com/kuma_t.htm
Combined Fleet wrote:
1 November 1943:
Drydocked. KUMA's No. 5 140-mm gun is removed as are her catapult and derrick. Two triple mount Type 96 25-mm AA guns are fitted. This brings KUMA's 25-mm AA suite to ten barrels (2x3, 2x2).


Since she was refit at Singapore, I would think that getting the Type 89 HA 127mm mount would have been more difficult, unless they kept a stock of these mounts in Singapore for repairs.

And the Tama Entry at Combined Fleet shows it only got 4x3 Type 96, and not the 5x3 that the image you posted shows (2 P/S behind the additional 2x2 Type 96, one on the Catapult Mount, one on the Deckhouse behind the Mainmast, and one on the fantail deck).

http://www.combinedfleet.com/tama_t.htm
Combined Fleet wrote:
27 October 1943:
Arrives at Yokosuka. Begins repairs and modifications. Her Nos. 5 and 7 140-mm guns are removed as are her catapult and derrick. A twin 127-mm HA gun is fitted as are four triple mount and six single mount Type 96 25-mm AA guns. This brings TAMA's 25-mm AA suite to 22 barrels (4x3, 2x2, 6x1). A type 21 air search radar is also fitted.



This image would show a need to change the accounts of these cruisers at other sources as well: Pacific War dot com, Hyperwar, and just regular Wikipedia Entries.

MB

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HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:10 am 
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This source was the Model Art Ship Modeling Special #29.

The illustrations for Tama and Kiso match those from the LaCroix and Welles volume on IJN cruisers (the most authoritive source in English that I know). That includes Tama having 5 x triple 25mmAA.

OTOH, L & W do not mention the installation of the aft 12.7cm mount on Kuma. Can't remember about the catapult. But, this book is not infallible, either. FWIW.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:03 am 
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Dan K wrote:
This source was the Model Art Ship Modeling Special #29.

The illustrations for Tama and Kiso match those from the LaCroix and Welles volume on IJN cruisers (the most authoritive source in English that I know). That includes Tama having 5 x triple 25mmAA.

OTOH, L & W do not mention the installation of the aft 12.7cm mount on Kuma. Can't remember about the catapult. But, this book is not infallible, either. FWIW.


Then someone should comment Combined Fleet to correct the Tama page.

Not to mention asking what their sources on the Kuma having the #5 5.5" and catapult Removed at Singapore in Nov/Dec of 1943.


MB

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1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:02 pm 
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Thank guys! Idk what I was thinking in that I thought they where similar. Here I was thinking I could use Rainbows 1/350 Tama PE set for Kuma . Looks like I'll be waiting:/


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:58 pm 
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Does anyone have the deck layout for the Isuzu in 1945? There should be multiple triple MGs but I'm struggling to find anything accurate.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 7:21 am 
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Greg lester wrote:
Does anyone have the deck layout for the Isuzu in 1945? There should be multiple triple MGs but I'm struggling to find anything accurate.


There were a total of 11 triple mounts as of 9/44. The locations are as follows:
-2 on the platform in front of the bridge at the O3 level.
-2 port and starboard the first funnel.
-2 on the outboard sections of the platforms between the second and third funnels.
-2 just above the aft most portion of the torpedo tubes on the port and starboard sides.
-2 forward the main boom on port and starboard.
-1 on the lower deck aft the last 12.7cm centerline of the ship.

There is a drawing in L&W on page 401.

HTH

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:55 pm 
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I'mnot aware of a deck layout for 1945, only late 1944 and the aforementioned L & W schematic:


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Isuzu 1944 illustration, L & W.jpg
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 4:05 pm 
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Excellent thanks, I keep reading that there were a total of 50 barrels for the mg's, so that's it then. A few Japanese sites seem to conflict by throwing in more triple mounts on their models.


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 7:57 am 
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Ok, next question, given there is so little reference material on this class, I'm trying to figure out the panel lines on the hull and what the 4 "flaps" are on the side of the Isuzu. The Aoshima kit does not have them but the box art does. The rest of it I have figured.


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 11:34 am 
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Greg lester wrote:
Ok, next question, given there is so little reference material on this class, I'm trying to figure out the panel lines on the hull and what the 4 "flaps" are on the side of the Isuzu. The Aoshima kit does not have them but the box art does. The rest of it I have figured.


You would need to be more specific as to what you mean by "Flaps."

In looking at the box-art (I assume you mean the 1/350 scale kit), I cannot see anything that looks like "Flaps."

MB

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1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 3:15 pm 
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I don't see anything, either.


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