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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:46 pm 
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Location: Corvallis, Oregon, USA
Snowman,

Although all of the Clevelands were generally the same, there are several significant variants.

Cleveland CL-55 and Columbia CL-56 had more variations from the following ships. They had boat cranes and a boat farm midships. All of the Clevelands had a rounded armored pilot house up to USS Mobile CL-63. The boat cranes and boat farms were removed from later ships.

USS Vincennes CL-64 had a trapezoidal pilot house and bridge, and narrower bridge wings - the heavy armored pilot house was omitted from CL-64 and all subsequent Cleveland class ships. All of these ships had 5"/38 gun mounts 4 and 5 moved aft 16 feet, and the positions of the Mk34 main battery director and the Mk37 secondary battery director positions were reversed.

There were other significant differences, including visible variations between ships constructed in different shipyards. Later ships had the rangefinders removed from 6"/47 turret #1, and some had one catapult removed. As the war progressed many changes were made to the basic design, and in some cases these changes were retrofitted to earlier ships. Later ships had dual 40mm gun tubs on the stern, and a few earlier ships were retrofitted with these guns.

I think it is safe to say that no two Clevelands were exactly alike, and figuring out the differences can be frustrating. So you need to decide which ship(s) to model, and when in the service history.

Phil

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A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle


Last edited by DrPR on Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:52 am 
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Email received, thanks a lot.
DavidP wrote:
CL-89 – USS Miami Booklet of General Plans, 1946 Booklet of General Plans, 1946 http://www.hnsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/cl89.pdf email sent with frame lines drawing.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:01 am 
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no problem.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:51 pm 
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Location: Flower Mound, TX
Late to the party gentlemen. I maintain the USS Astoria CL-90 site and am eye-deep in a book about her crew's war experience.

Couple of quick thoughts:
I went back through this entire thread (whew! 11 years) and didn't see any discussion of the aircraft recovery crane as an identifying feature. The Fore River ships used a plate construction that is very distinctive from the tubular construction of the other yards. Vincennes, Pasadena, Springfield and Topeka all have this distinctive feature.

Some interesting tidbits on design evolution. When the rounded bridge was replaced by the open bridge to reduce topside weight, the result was severe concussion blast when the secondary battery was fired in antiaircraft capacity. Astoria's CAPT George Dyer wrote to BuShips that he was getting "knocked on his fanny" and equipment was breaking loose. Some skippers elected to abandon the open bridge in action.
During her shakedown cruise, Astoria damaged the single 20mm Oerlikon mounts surrounding her aft main battery turrets during gunnery exercises. This may have played a role in their removal and replacement by twin Bofors fore and aft post-shakedown, as it certainly added topside weight.

And because she was outfitted with Kingfishers rendering the hangar inaccessible by aircraft, Astoria's crew turned it into a basketball court.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:20 pm 
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Brent,

Welcome!

I can verify the unpleasant effects of the 5"/38 gunfire on the bridge. During Naval Gunfire Support operations in Vietnam we sometimes engaged targets abaft abeam - "shooting over the shoulder." From my watch station on the bridge I could look into the open ends of the gun barrels only about 15 feet away. When the guns fired it was deafening* - and the OK City had an enclosed bridge outside the pilot house.

We had only the one dual 5"/38 mount, and NGFS wasn't as rapid fire as antiaircraft fire in WWII. The open bridge on the Clevelands wouldn't be habitable with six guns firing rapidly.

****

If you haven't seen Brent's USS Astoria CL-90 "Mighty 90" web page, be sure to visit it. His collection of ship's photos from WWII is exceptional!

http://www.mighty90.com/

Phil

* Quite literally. I lost all hearing above about 1 KHz, a high pitched male voice, and I have constant ringing in my ears. Before Vietnam I had hearing up to 18 KHz.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:49 pm 
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Hearing loss from exposure to the 5/38 gun was common. Lots of WWII veterans, including my father, lost their hearing due to the same exposure you encountered. My father told me the sharp crack of the gun was painful to endure.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:55 pm 
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The replacement of the main deck 20-mm guns with twin 40-mm guns had less to do with the blast damage to the 20-mm guns, and more to do with the cry for more 40-mm guns on the CLEVELAND's. Those locations were authorized (in mid-1944) as the best available that had not already been populated with 40-mm guns. The addition of the four twin 40-mm mounts (two forward and two aft) by the superimposed 6-in turrets brought the armament from 20 to 28 40-mm guns.


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