The Ship Model Forum

Hey guys thanks for posting the photo of USS Mobile. That's the ship I'm building and was hard pressed to find a source for mast height relations. I have completed the main battery and secondary gun directors, cranes, catapults, and gun turrets. I'll post some pictures soon. I was searching online the other night and came accross a site that gave a list of ship class differences: ship type by ship type. (example: director locations, AA differences, deck level variations, round bridge, etc., etc.) I see if I can locate it again for it might be interesting. Thanks for the help. Keith

Maybe a brain fart, but when I looked at those fantastic photos a few posts up earlier on the previous forum site, they seemed to be the entire length of the ship. Have the photos been cropped now?

_________________
Gernot Hassenpflug
Find out how it works, then functionality and limits

Rick,

Your photo of Cleveland - isn't she tied up at NY Shipbuilding in that picture, being fitted out?

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

Martin, that one is part of a whole series taken toward the end of the fitting-out. Notice the lack of the MK-34 directors, and the fact that the boats aren't yet aboard.

Dick,

Answered the question. The batch of photos I scanned at NYSB are surface level views dated as 30 May 1942 and "June" 1942 aerial photos.

Also, I have one interesting progress photo of CLEVELAND while fitting out on 1 April 1942.




Now talk about a LARGE SCALE KIT ... you can't beat these 1:1 "kits" ... be sure to follow the instructions.




Break Time ....

Gentlemen,
Thanks for the posts and pictures ofindividual ship configurations.
I am wanting to depict Cleveland CL-55 as configured at Empress Augusta in 1943. As far as I can tell, the ship was essentially as she was when deployed to the Pacific in December 1942. Specifics of fittings (as far as I have been able to determine) were:

Mk 34 main directors with Mk 3 FC radar
Mk 37 secondary directors with elevated Mk 4 FC radar
SC-2 and SG radars

40 mm mounts:
4 x twin (in original 1.1 positions)

20 mm mounts: (all single, paired laterally)
Main deck:
2 at bow
2 abeam/forward of fore 5” mount
2 (or is it 4?) midships
2 abeam/aft of aft 5” mount

O1 level:
2 abeam bridge
2 (in elevated tubs) abeam forestack
2 (in elevated tubs) abeam aft superstructure
6 on former midships boat stowage deck

The boat cranes and boat stowage were removed.
I am assuming that the 40mm had Mk 51 directors.

Camoflage was MS 22.

Is this correct?

Mike

Cleveland commissioned with 8 40MM and 12 20MM. The 8 40MM were in the 4 twin mounts described above. The 12 20MM were on the main deck amidships (2 per side) and on the O-1 level, 2 abeam the front of the bridge, 2 abeam the foremast, 2 abeam the after stack (this pair was slightly lower than the O-1 to allow the cranes to clear overhead), and the last 2 forward of the after twin 5" mount. Before she deployed for the Casablanca landings, 4 more 20MM had been added on the main deck at the ends of the superstructure.

Before transiting to the Pacific, some further changes were made. The original 4 20MM on the main deck amidships were replaced by twin 40MM. The boats and cranes were removed, and the MK-51 directors for the midships 40MM were atop the original craneposts. 6 20MM were added on the former boat deck, 2 were added on the bow, 2 more on the stern, and 2 on the back end of the superstructure, just below the after MK-37 director.

This would provide a total of 12 40MM and 24 20MM for 1943. These are the changes I have been able to ID. If you see any more, please let me know. In addition, some time before June of '44, the forward MK-34 director had its MK-3 radar replaced by a MK-8. The after director retained the MK-3. I am not sure of the exact date for the change.

Norman Friedman's book "U.S. Cruisers" (Naval Institute Press, 1984) contains a lot of informationabout the Cleveland class ships and their modifications during WWII.

Does anyone know of a book specifically about the Cleveland class or any ot the individual ships?

_________________
A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle

Ok boat fans, here's some shots of USS Cleveland as-completed during sea trials.

Enjoy you MS-12 Revised fans!

Port Side:






Starboard Side:

_________________
John Sheridan
Yankee Modelworks

Yep. I will change the instruction to reflect this. I must have looked at Cleveland Class Cls a thousand times and never noticed that!

_________________
John Sheridan
Yankee Modelworks

The CL-55 USS Cleveland kit has the Mk-3 radars. However, since the fret is the same for both the USS Cleveland and the USS Miami kits, I included the parts to make either radars.

_________________
John Sheridan
Yankee Modelworks

If any of you guys are looking for a certain ship in this class, let me know either via pm or drop a note here.

_________________
John Sheridan
Yankee Modelworks

I would love to get my hands on some of the NYSB shots if they are from other than the archives. I'm willing to do trades of what I have scanned @ 300dpi.

_________________
John Sheridan
Yankee Modelworks

The NYSB shots I have were scanned at NARA in the 19LCM file. I scanned just about everything I found in that file for CLEVELAND and a few photos I came across in 80-G. I have wanted to model CLEVELAND as she was for the North Africa campaign and never could find enough dated photos of her until I took a side "trip" from scanning USN destroyers.

Upon reviewing the fitting out photos, I spotted something. Cleveland had a 13th 20MM at the back of the superstructure. At that time, it was a single gun. I can't be certain of the number there for the Casablanca OP, but by the time she deployed to the Pacific, there were two 20MM there. These are the two I listed as added there post Casablanca. Apparently, one of them was there from the beginning.

Thanks Dick, I noticed this and was going to ask, but as usual you are a step ahead of me!

Sorry to be obtuse, but I still can't quite figure out the 20mm configuration at the"back of the boat". Do you have a photo that shows the positions of the two mounts behind the aft Mk 37 director? From this photo (quoted as 1944) it still appears to be a single mount.

Examining a photo of Mobile, there is splinter shielding behind the catapults at the stern that runs parallel to the deck edge. Looking at this photo of Cleveland, it appears there is a similar arrangement. I cannot make out the 20mm stern mounts, but I assume this is where they were?

I also noticed (and John's NY photos confirm) that the 20mm mounts at the O1 level on the aft superstructure were not positioned symetrically. The starboard mount is further aft than the port.


Mike

Dick,

I have stared at many blurry photos online of Cleveland class ships and some appear to have something at that location and others don't, and it some cases it looked like it might be a 20mm. In John's photos of the Cleveland it is quite clearly a 20mm. Thanks for pointing out that feature!

Do you know which of the Cleveland class ships had guns there? On later ships (Astoria for example) it appears that there is a gun director at this location. One of the problems in interpreting the photos is that often canvas bags were placed over guns and directors, making it difficult to identify the shape. And often in shipyards equipment has been removed when the photo was made and replaced later.

Also, on later ships (Vincennes and after) the #4 and #5 dual 5"/38 mounts were moved farther aft by a few frames. On some of these ships the 20mm guns are still on the O1 level just aft of the 5" mounts, but the photos are too fuzzy to see if they are there on all ships. Anyone know for sure? On the later ships the aft O1 level 20mm mounts are still staggered, with the starboard gun farther aft than the port gun. I'm not sure, but this may be due to a vent or the 250KW diesel generator exhaust stack on the port side just aft of the 20mm gun.

Also, I think I recall seeing 20mm gun tubs mounted high port and starboard on the after smoke pipe on a few ships, but definitely not on others.

_________________
A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle

Checking that photo, you are correct that it is still only one. By the end of '43, that position was a bit wider, projecting further to port and starboard than the attached catwalks up the sides of the superstructure. Thanks for keeping me honest!

In looking at several images of the fantail of early CLEVELAND's, I see one 20-mm per side at the fantail of these ships after December 1942 on CLEVELAND herself. The best (clear) image I came across was this one of VINCENNES (CL-64). A weird thing I noticed was where they painted the "stern" hull number.

Interesting shot! They painted the name out (standard procedure) but added a hull number.

I noticed the fantail 20mm was actually more common on new ships. My USS Miami drawings show the same 20mm tubs in the same spot.

_________________
John Sheridan
Yankee Modelworks