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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 12:01 pm 
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Garry,

Are you modeling the USS Oklahoma City CLG-5 or another of the CLGs?

The OK City originally was configured almost exactly like the USS Little Rock CLG-4. The Little Rock was never modified much, so the ship at the Buffalo and Eire Naval and Military Park in Buffalo, NY, is almost the same as it was when commissioned in 1960.

On the other hand, the Oklahoma City was modified continuously during it's 19 years as a missile cruiser. I have many pages of notes listing dozens and dozens of changes over the years - and I am still discovering more. You must pick a date during that time span if you want to make an accurate model.

The ship had this eight boat configuration when commissioned in 1960:
Port and starboard two-tier boat davits with two 26' motor whale boats (upper) and two 28' personnel boats (lower).
Port boat deck with two nested 40' utility boats.
Starboard boat deck with one 40' utility boat (lower) and one 40' personnel boat (upper).

In 1962 the ship went into the yards for extensive topside weight reduction. The port and starboard two-tier boat davits were removed. A single dual arm gravity davit was installed on the starboard side. The boat decks were reconstructed.

From 1964 through 1979 the ship had this four boat configuration:
One boat davit on the starboard side with a single 26' motor whaleboat.
Port boat decks carried a nest with a 40' utility boat (lower) and a 28' personnel boat (Captain's gig, upper).
Starboard boat deck with one 40' personnel boat.

Off and on between 1964 and 1979 the ship also carried one or two 28' personnel boats in dollies on top of the missile house. These were the Admiral's barge and the 7th Fleet Staff boat. Again, you should pick a date to model and find photos that show the boat configuration at that time. I have chosen mid 1971 because the ship had six boats and the FAST crane was still aboard. Also, I was aboard at that time and it is the ship I remember.

NOTE: As I said, almost EVERYTHING was modified at one time or another during the ship's 19 years as a missile cruiser. The antennas were rearranged almost every time we went into Yokosuka, new compartments were added topside, the radar towers were reconfigured several times, radars were replaced with newer radars, three or four different types of helicopters, etc. Every model of the ship I have seen was grossly inaccurate because the modeler did not do his homework and mixed configurations from several dates.

In particular, yard periods in 1962 and 1967 made very significant modifications to towers and superstructure.

None of the other CLGs had as many modifications during their shorter periods of service.

Phil

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Last edited by DrPR on Wed May 21, 2014 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 3:25 pm 
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I discussed boat colors in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=70810

Admiral's barges had black hulls and lots of fancy trim. Other boats had gray hulls, with less chrome and trim for lower ranking commands. As you can see in the other thread there were differences between underside hull colors, waterline stripes, etc.

The OK City's Captain's barge had a dual red and white waterline up until sometime in late 1970 or early 1971 when a single red stripe was used.

Phil

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:14 pm 
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I'll be touring the Buffalo Naval Park and the USS Little Rock later this week (June 19) - if anyone would like some particular pictures, let me know.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:15 pm 
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D-Boy wrote:
I'll be touring the Buffalo Naval Park and the USS Little Rock later this week (June 19) - if anyone would like some particular pictures, let me know.


Yes please.

Any pictures of the full length of the starboard or port side of the ship would be greatly appreciated.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:40 pm 
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Haijun watcher wrote:

D-Boy: I'll be touring the Buffalo Naval Park and the USS Little Rock later this week (June 19) - if anyone would like some particular pictures, let me know.

Yes please.

Any pictures of the full length of the starboard or port side of the ship would be greatly appreciated.


She's got an SSK and a DD moored inside of her. Are you looking for deck down (hull) or deck up (superstructure) photos?

Photos will be from her starboard side... I don't have telephoto lenses to take anything detailed of her port side.

DBoy


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:09 pm 
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D-Boy wrote:

She's got an SSK and a DD moored inside of her. Are you looking for deck down (hull) or deck up (superstructure) photos?

Photos will be from her starboard side... I don't have telephoto lenses to take anything detailed of her port side.

DBoy


Deck up if possible. I could have visited the ship when I was visited the Niagara region back in 2009, but had other things to tend to back then. Oh well.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:01 pm 
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I'll be touring the Buffalo Naval Park and the USS Little Rock later this week (June 19) - if anyone would like some particular pictures, let me know.

Haijun Watcher:

<<Yes please. Any pictures of the full length of the starboard or port side of the ship would be greatly appreciated.>>

Took over 150 photos of the USS Little Rock today. Will sort and label and post in a "permanent" folder on Photobucket and link back here.

On past business trips to Buffalo, I've never had time to tour the three museum ships moored there, and was glad to get there this time. Little Rock has got to be a huge maintenance responsibility, and she shows some wear and tear in places. But I think you will find the photos useful; they document the ships hull and superstructure exterior to the extent that shipboard angles and access allowed. I'll post a link this weekend.

Frankly, the most intriguing part of access to the ship is the Talos missile handling compartment toward the stern. The machinery for storage and assembly in that space is stunning in complexity, massive in size, and certainly explains why the ship had only room for one launcher.

Here's a link to a film shown on board in the missile hanger: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgFIhomusc8

I'll be posting folders for SSK Croaker and DD Sullivans as well, and will link to the appropriate forums for those vessels as well.

D-Boy


Last edited by D-Boy on Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:21 am 
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It was quite a trip working inside the Talos launching system while all that machinery was moving! It was one of the first shipboard missile handling systems and they still had a lot to learn about how to make things work. There was a lot of maintenance required to keep everything working. The size of the Talos missile (30 feet long, 30 inches diameter) made everything huge.

Here is a description of how it worked:

http://www.okieboat.com/Talos%20launching%20system.html

And if you want more details here are the training manuals:

http://www.okieboat.com/GMM.html

Phil

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:07 am 
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DrPR wrote:
It was quite a trip working inside the Talos launching system while all that machinery was moving! It was one of the first shipboard missile handling systems and they still had a lot to learn about how to make things work. There was a lot of maintenance required to keep everything working. The size of the Talos missile (30 feet long, 30 inches diameter) made everything huge.

Here is a description of how it worked:

http://www.okieboat.com/Talos%20launching%20system.html

And if you want more details here are the training manuals:

http://www.okieboat.com/GMM.html

Phil


Phil, the maintenance responsibilities were at the forefront of my thinking in that space. I found your documentation later last night - thanks for such a detailed effort to document the process! And your CAD work is impressive! http://www.okieboat.com/CAD%20superstructure.html


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:22 am 
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The launching system worked very reliably, but there were a few quirks. The transfer carts had pneumatic systems - valves and motors. But the air supply on the ship collected a lot of water from condensation. At sea, when the ship was rolling, that water made its way through the system and the motors gave everything a bath of water and oil - a real mess. We had electrically conductive plastic sheets to cover the missiles.

I knew this just couldn't be the way it was designed, so I sent the GM Division Chief PO to look for a solution. After consulting with the ship's Damage Control Officer and looking over air system blueprints he discovered that there was an air drier on the mess decks, below the missile house. Seems it had been forgotten about, and the last time the dryer cartridges had been replaced in the shipyard someone left the valves set to bypass the dryer. After they set the valves correctly we had dry air!

****

The missile stowage magazine and ready service magazine equipments were designed by different companies. The ready service magazine worked perfectly, without too much maintenance, even though it had a huge number of moving parts. The stowage magazine was something else. The hydraulic cranes used a fluid that dissolved the seals. After a while hydraulic fluid leaked out of everything and pooled on the decks. Fortunately, it wasn't flammable, but it was a constant mess.

The missile launcher was made by the same company that made the stowage magazine, and they used the same hydraulic fluid. A standard part of the repair tools for the launcher was an umbrella. When it was running hydraulic fluid dripped from everywhere. On the other hand, nothing rusted!

Phil

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:20 am 
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Not yet in any order, here is a link to pictures of the Little Rock from my visit in June 2014.

http://s1122.photobucket.com/user/DrWind/library/USS%20Little%20Rock%20CL92?sort=3&page=1

General order of photos is as follows:

Pier side, bow to stern.

Stern to bow from deck of the USS Sullivans.

Stern, deck level, on board USS Little Rock. From this point I followed the self-guided tour route, climbing two levels to bridge deck and above. Tour concludes on bow.

I'll start labeling these photos, but wanted to provide general access.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:14 am 
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Please don't pelt me with rotten tomatoes....

I build WW2 ships in the dead 1/600 scale (what can I say, I enjoy the pain it brings).

Options for US warships in 1/600 are few and far between, particularly with cruisers. In fact, the only cruiser I have found in 1/600 is the Lindberg USS Manchester.

There are 2 issues with this kit:
1) It is not very good
2) The Manchester was completed in 1946, so I'd like to 'convert' the kit to the USS Cleveland.

My questions are:
1) What are the physical differences between the Cleveland and Manchester?
2) Does anyone have any experience with this kit? If so, any advice (other than the obvious 'throw it away') on how to make it more accurate?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 12:15 pm 
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what are your scratch building skills like? read this link as also applies to manchester.
http://www.quuxuum.org/rajens_list/ship ... l#LindClev


Last edited by DavidP on Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 6:32 pm 
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DavidP wrote:
what are yor scratch building skills like? read this link as also applies to manchester.
http://www.quuxuum.org/rajens_list/ship ... l#LindClev

I was hoping you wouldn't say that...

My skills are limited. I can do basic scratch building, like superstructure, decking, funnels, etc. But I'm not so comfortable with building guns (of any size), or hulls.

I can definitely replace the deck, and re-do the superstructure, but I'm hoping the hull is passable? If not, what needs to change?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:37 pm 
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has no bow foot(bulb), stern is to wide as designed to be motorized as the ones i have are like that. secondary armament has to be redone as maybe the main too but depends on you.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:33 pm 
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Hey all,

Was perusing navsource and came across a couple pictures of the USS Amsterdam CL-101 in a very attractive and different camouflage. There are two shots from the bow and from the stern but both from the starboard side only. Couple of questions, what was this scheme called? What colors? And are there any pics of the port side?

Thanks
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:57 pm 
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Well Navsource is currently down so I can't find the photos on there but it seems that Wiki might have one of those ones you're talking about.

Is this it? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/USS_Amsterdam_%28CL-101%29.jpg

Shipcamouflage.com states that she wore Ms 31a/10C of which I can't find any design sheets. Ms 31 called for 5-H,5-O, and Black. In all honesty though that darkest color does NOT look like black based on the darkness of the blast bags and their sharp contrast to the hull. If I had to guess I'd say it was 5-N with either 5-H, and 5-O, or maybe 5-H, and 5-P or 5-L. No idea really unless someone can track down the design sheet. They modified those schemes at times so you can't "always" go by what the core measure called for color wise.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:51 pm 
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Thanks for the reply Cliffy, Mr. Roger Torgeson came to my aid and provided me a link with a design sheet. That picture you posted seems a hair sharper than the navsource one, so I will be saving that one.

Thanks,
http://usndazzle.com/1Web/DrawingsCL/10C%20CL55.html

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:36 pm 
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Awesome!!!! Always loved the schemes with 5-N as the darkest color. They just look cool! Add the wavy demarcations and this scheme is awesome!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:56 pm 
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Does anyone have a rigging diagram for the square bridge Clevelands? Found a build here on MW but I need some diagrams to base the pictures on. Hate to bump an old thread but I need the help.

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