The Ship Model Forum

Hi Maarten, your answer is very complex and demonstrates your deep knowledge of the ship.
I'm copying your answer in my computer to analize it with plans that I'm about to receive. That is very difficulty for me to understand the locations of the frames ( without drawings of the hull lines...) , but now you are clarifying that for me.
Thank you very much for your kind answer, and I hope it can be useful to mate mermaid too.
Nice regards: Jimmy

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Maarten, please, I have another question, if you can help again:
this disposition of the torpedo tubes were similar in both ships?
I consider that the only major diference between the sisters were motorization and the four propellers in Dresden.

Thanks: Jimmy

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Hi peppe, thanks for your answer too, I sent you some PM and mail.
Nice regards: Jimmy

_________________
Make your influence positive!

"Oh Lord thy sea is so great and my boat is so small."
Breton Fisherman's Prayer

Hi Jimmy & others,

As you asked for the exact position of the torpedo tubes, I tried to formulate my answer as exact as it could be! Therefore the reference to the frames, which is the generally accepted method in shipbuilding to indicate a position in a ship. But yes, it assumes you have an insight where those frames are located! And normally you need a drawing for that, showing the hull frames and their positions...

Well, there is one thing that helps here: by coincidence (!) these little German cruisers of the Kaiserliche Marine happened to have a fixed frame spacing of exactly one metre. This means that frame 85 is exactly 85 metres forward of the stern, the extreme rear part of the hull.

Converting this measure to your preferred scale shouldn't be that difficult, I suppose.

Does this solve your question?

(And a further note for the whizkids here: this way of measuring is different from the RN or other navies, in those the rudder axis is called the Aft Perpendicular and frame positions are measured from this point forward. In German vessels the aft perpendicular ("hintere Lot" in german) is the stern or the rearmost frame in in, and the rudder post is almost invariably postioned at Frame 7 - I haven't encountered any exceptions to that rule yet.
However, the frame spacings differ: while the cruisers have their frames with an interval of 1 metre, the battleships were designed with fixed frame spacings of 1.2 metres, and small vessels (the Gorch Fock) having 60 cm frame spacings. But always uniform throughout the ship, and not variable, as was the case with RN ships. )

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"I've heard there's a wicked war a-blazing, and the taste of war I know so very well
Even now I see the foreign flag a-raising, their guns on fire as we sail into hell"
Roger Whittaker +9/13/2023

Here is some information for comparison.

In the US Navy frames are numbered from the bow to the stern. Frame 0 is the Fore Peak where the leading edge of the stem cuts the water. Therefore, frames forward of the waterline on an overhanging bow have negative numbers (-1, -2, etc.). The After Peak is the point where the aftmost part of the stern cuts the water. On overhanging sterns the frame numbers continue past the Aft Peak.

The Fore Peak and Aft Peak are the "perpendiculars" and you will see the hull length specified as "between perpendiculars" (at the waterline) and "overall" (from the forwardmost tip of the bow to the aftmost overhang of the stern.

Frame numbering is typically at four foot intervals - I think this applies to all modern ships, but I am not certain. However, ships were sometimes constructed with half frames spaced between full frames. These half frames sometimes were constructed only below the waterline.

Phil

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A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle

Hi Phil,

Thank you very much for the addition! (although I'm afraid we're veering a bit off topic..., maybe we will get relocated to a more convenient forum.)

I'm leafing through a number of plans I have of USN vessels, and you're quite correct. Maybe because I've got some older plans (USS Midway f.i. in this case), the frames ahead of 'fore peak' (FP or Forward Perpendicular) are called here A, B, C etc. instead of having negative numbers.

While the Midway indeed has 4 ft frame spacing, I found some other vessels having 3 ft spacing, or even varying frame spacing, but always very neatly indicated. My experience with RN ships is you have to solve quite a puzzle whate actual frame spacings were used, designers increasing or decreasing the interval around turrets or in boiler rooms as they felt appropriate.

Having half frames in between seems to be a quite common practice, also with the German Kaiserliche Marine and others.

_________________
"I've heard there's a wicked war a-blazing, and the taste of war I know so very well
Even now I see the foreign flag a-raising, their guns on fire as we sail into hell"
Roger Whittaker +9/13/2023

Maarten,

You are correct about the frames forward of the Fore Peak being lettered. I guess I just had one of those teen age moments.

Also, after thinking about it I recalled thet the US Fletcher class destroyers had a frame spacing of 21 inches. So you really need good plans to be able to locate features by frame numbers.

Phil

_________________
A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle

Hi Maarten and Phil:
I thank you both very much for kind replies, that now I feel able to locate the torpedo tubes for SMS Emden.

And yes, I got some drawings.

Regards: Jimmy

_________________
Make your influence positive!

"Oh Lord thy sea is so great and my boat is so small."
Breton Fisherman's Prayer

And you, Mermaid, is that clear for you?

Regards: Jimmy

_________________
Make your influence positive!

"Oh Lord thy sea is so great and my boat is so small."
Breton Fisherman's Prayer

And I thought frames on overhanging stern/bow (outside the perpendiculars, the forward one is the one cutting the CWL, the aft one is the one in the middle of the rudder trunk, cutting the CWL) having negative numbers is a German thing. At least we have a word for it: 'Minusspant(en)' ('minus' frames) ...

Happy modelling ~ Olaf!

Thanks, Maarten and Jimmy ! So on the model that should be represented as a closed circilar opening? It is not quite clear if it should be showing the angle by protruding off the hull or opposite.
How is your model advancing, Jimmy? I am looking forward to see it so there will be less questions left. What guise are you going to portray it? With the false stack or without?

Hi,

The torpedo tube aperture should look something like this:. This example is from SMS Ostfriesland, and will be slightly larger than on the cruisers: 50 cm torpedo's instead of 45 cm.

Not circular, but oval with square topcorners, and slightly recessed. Note also the reinforcing skin doubler, which was mistaken by Revell as being part of the recess.

_________________
"I've heard there's a wicked war a-blazing, and the taste of war I know so very well
Even now I see the foreign flag a-raising, their guns on fire as we sail into hell"
Roger Whittaker +9/13/2023

Maarten is it very similar to the Emden or the same equipment but only slightly larger?

Thnaks for posting the pic, it is magnificent.

Jimmy

_________________
Make your influence positive!

"Oh Lord thy sea is so great and my boat is so small."
Breton Fisherman's Prayer

Hi Jimmy, Mermaid,

I'm convinced the torpedo apertures on the cruisers were entirely similar to those on Ostfriesland, only a touch smaller. The only difference I can see is that on Emden (and Dresden) the top corners of the doubler plate were cut off, instead of the bottom corners as in case of the Ostfriesland. This because the underlying skin plate situation was slightly different.

The Germans were pretty steadfast in repeating a good design over and over again in their ships...

_________________
"I've heard there's a wicked war a-blazing, and the taste of war I know so very well
Even now I see the foreign flag a-raising, their guns on fire as we sail into hell"
Roger Whittaker +9/13/2023

found somewhere in the net
ciao peppe

Thanks Peppe!

See what I mean? Almost exactly as on the Ostfriesland.

_________________
"I've heard there's a wicked war a-blazing, and the taste of war I know so very well
Even now I see the foreign flag a-raising, their guns on fire as we sail into hell"
Roger Whittaker +9/13/2023

Coming in late to the subject, recently picked up the Revell Emden and am eager to amass all the research and aftermarket details nessisary to get the job done. Is there any aftermarket details currently available? I noted Gold Medal being mentioned some posts, and years back, are such still available?

Been to the front page?

I must be missing something? If you mean the first page of this thread, yes, I saw mentions of various things, but as those posts were five years old, I wondered about new/better/different?

He might be referring to the front page of Modelwarships.com, where all the banners are, including the one for GMM and various online vendors. In any case, I do believe that the GMM set is still in production and can be attained relatively painlessly

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