The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:30 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 155 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:56 am
Posts: 6131
Location: New York City
There are several photos of Chicago at Brisbane, March 1941 that show some nice detail, including that CXAM on the mainmast. While not totally appropriate for early 1943, surely the basics are sound?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:38 am
Posts: 205
Location: Czech Republic
Hello Dan, you are absolutely right, I downloaded them already as well as many photos of her sisters. Although there were more subtle differences between the sisters that one would tell at the first sight, these are all useful for general details. I was hoping there may be some 1942 photos that I overlooked or missed but it does not seem to be the case. Anyway, thanks for your help!

_________________
My Gallery | Current build: 1/700 IJN Tenryu | In preparation: 1/700 USS Chicago


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 6161
Location: In the hills of North Jersey
Vladi -

Found this photo is the book I'm currently reading "The Shame of Savo". It shows Chicago shortly after the battle. It's written by Bruce Loxton, RAN, who was a midshipman aboard Canberra that night.
Attachment:
ChicagoAug1942.jpg
ChicagoAug1942.jpg [ 1.63 MiB | Viewed 493 times ]

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:53 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:38 am
Posts: 205
Location: Czech Republic
Thanks a lot Martin! How could I have forgotten about this photo from my favourite book about the Savo Island Battle??? Hope you like the book, too.
The caption in the book attributes this photo to J. Langrell, so it probably comes from a private collection. A hi-res scan of the original would be a seventh heaven for me ;)

_________________
My Gallery | Current build: 1/700 IJN Tenryu | In preparation: 1/700 USS Chicago


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 6161
Location: In the hills of North Jersey
Louisville, January 1944, off the Northern California coast
Attachment:
80G214070.jpg
80G214070.jpg [ 1.37 MiB | Viewed 367 times ]

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:50 am
Posts: 11
Can anyone please share information about the USS NORTHAMPTON in October 1942.
Did NORTHAMPTON have a single Mark 34 Gun Director for the 8"/55 guns?
Or was there another?
If so, where was it located?

Did NORTHAMPTON carried the Mark 37 Gun Director for the 5" gun by 10/1942?
Did it have the Mark 4 Fire Director Radar?
Or did NORTHAMPTON continue with the Mark 19 Gun Director?

Also, what type of 5" gun did NORTHAMPTON had in 10/1942?
Was it the 5"/25 or the 5"/38?

I appreciate for any response to my questions.
Thank you.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:12 pm
Posts: 1594
5"/25 guns


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:38 am
Posts: 205
Location: Czech Republic
Hello, Norman Friedman in US Cruisers - An Illustrated Design History has some limited info on her May and October refits in 1942. Most important follows:
Attachment:
19420500 USS Northampton after May refit amidships Friedman p136.JPG
19420500 USS Northampton after May refit amidships Friedman p136.JPG [ 191.02 KiB | Viewed 262 times ]

Attachment:
19420500 USS Northampton after May refit aft Friedman p137.JPG
19420500 USS Northampton after May refit aft Friedman p137.JPG [ 174.08 KiB | Viewed 263 times ]

Gun are clearly 5"/25 as noted by DavidP.

_________________
My Gallery | Current build: 1/700 IJN Tenryu | In preparation: 1/700 USS Chicago


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:24 pm
Posts: 9
She had her same 5"/25cal AA battery until her loss. Her War Diary for Santa Cruz (Oct.26) confirms she was firing 5"/25cal AA at the time HORNET was attacked & disabled, etc. Other docs (CruDiv 5) show that the 5" fire against a/c was considered ineffective and poorly directed. The situation may be more fully grasped by NORTHAMPTON's after action report entries which stated that "Whistle and arm signals were used to great advantage in controlling 5" AA fire..."

Her quad 1.1" automatic cannon batteries were considered more effective than 20mm at the time of Santa Cruz.

She had CXAM radar. I don't think she had SG when she sank. Her secondary director up until late Oct. '42 was the old upgraded MK19 model.

MB director would have been MK24, I thought, but not real certain. Someone else can dbl-chk on that. Maybe that was replaced (?)

She did have a rather odd arrangement of directors & radar, as Friedman's pic shows, on her mainmast in the May 1942 period.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:29 pm
Posts: 1688
Being at work and away from my resources, I will have to confirm a few things to be sure. But off the top of my head, I will try to answer some of the questions.
aercastro82 wrote:
Did NORTHAMPTON have a single Mark 34 Gun Director for the 8"/55 guns?
Or was there another?
If so, where was it located?
The Northampton class survivors did not receive MK-34 directors until 1943 or later. (Louisville - 1943, Augusta - late 1944, Chester - 1945) Directors are not always the enclosed structures we tend to think of them as. The early directors stood on pedestals and were not enclosed. Later, some were put into enclosed structures (the MK-19 being one example). Northampton had one main battery director, in a rotating enclosure, above the spotting top on the forward tripod. (The MK-34 was way too heavy for that height.) A second director had been moved from abaft the second stack to a tub on the after tripod. It was one level below the MK-19 AA director. The MK-3 fire control radar was just below it.
aercastro82 wrote:
Did NORTHAMPTON carried the Mark 37 Gun Director for the 5" gun by 10/1942? Did it have the Mark 4 Fire Director Radar? Or did NORTHAMPTON continue with the Mark 19 Gun Director?
Northampton still had MK-19's when lost. Both carried MK-4 radar.
aercastro82 wrote:
Also, what type of 5" gun did NORTHAMPTON had in 10/1942?
Was it the 5"/25 or the 5"/38?
The first US heavy cruiser with 5"/38 guns was the Wichita. None of the earlier heavies upgraded their 5"/25's to 5"/38's.

G-Opt wrote:
She had CXAM radar. I don't think she had SG when she sank. Her secondary director up until late Oct. '42 was the old upgraded MK19 model.
Northampton started the war with one of the 6 CXAM sets. By the Doolittle Raid, it had been replaced with one of the 14 CXAM-1's. This substitution was unique and I can only assume that the original CXAM was either defective or damaged. The most likely "donor" for the CXAM-1 set would have been the West Virginia which was undergoing salvage at the time. Photos do not show an SG set on board at Santa Cruz.

Vladi, I think the photos from the Friedman book are Louisville rather than Northampton. Northampton was with Hornet and Enterprise in the South Pacific between the Doolittle Raid and Midway, and so wasn't at Mare Island. She was with Hornet in the Solomons area for all of October of '42. However, Louisville was at Mare Island in both time frames. Additionally, Northampton retained the catwalk around the front of the signal bridge level until lost. She also had 20MM guns in the bridge wings. So these photos are not Northampton.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:38 am
Posts: 205
Location: Czech Republic
Hello Dick J, thanks for correcting me on the Friedman photos. As can be seen, these two are not clearly captioned as to the ship in question, and there are Northampton and Louisville on the preceeding page, so I was mislead.

_________________
My Gallery | Current build: 1/700 IJN Tenryu | In preparation: 1/700 USS Chicago


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:50 am
Posts: 11
Dick J wrote:
The early directors stood on pedestals and were not enclosed. Later, some were put into enclosed structures (the MK-19 being one example).

You mean this:
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/Misc/Mk19Director/
Image

For sure, NORTHAMPTON did not have the early pedestal type in 10/42.
Is this correct?

Dick J wrote:
Northampton had one main battery director, in a rotating enclosure, above the spotting top on the forward tripod.

Was this director known as the Mark 24?
https://www.history.navy.mil/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nhhc-series/nh-series/19-N-36000/19-N-36771.html
Image

https://www.history.navy.mil/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nara-series/19-n/19-N-30000/19-N-32465.html
Image

Dick J wrote:
A second director had been moved from abaft the second stack to a tub on the after tripod.

Again, was this the Mark 24?
https://www.history.navy.mil/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nhhc-series/nh-series/19-N-36000/19-N-36772.html


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:24 pm
Posts: 9
Yes, that's the MB MK24 director atop her foremast. But, as noted, NORTHAMPTON's mainmast was cut down to a stub, atop which the Aft MK19 (Sky Aft) was sited.

The aft arrangement was different for different ships, apparently. On CA-30 the other system ("Battle Two" which comprised Secondary Conn & Aft Spotting Station) remained below the Sky Aft MK19 position, where it was pretty useless.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:29 pm
Posts: 1688
aercastro82 wrote:
Dick J wrote:
The early directors stood on pedestals and were not enclosed. Later, some were put into enclosed structures (the MK-19 being one example).

You mean this:
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/Misc/Mk19Director/
Image
For sure, NORTHAMPTON did not have the early pedestal type in 10/42.
Is this correct?

The MK-19's, as first installed, looked like this: http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/026/0402626.jpg
The directors were on the two raised circular platforms just aft of the stack. The operators stood next to the director and had to walk around as the director was turned. Tracy White's drawing shows that same director mounted on a rotating platform now co-located with a rangefinder. There was an outer cover that is not depicted in that drawing. The operators could now sit because the whole structure turned. When the directors were enclosed, they were initially mounted one above the pilothouse and one on the original platform aft of the stack. The after one was later relocated to the top of the after mast. That was where Northampton had them by the time of Pearl Harbor and they had not been changed by the time of her loss.
aercastro82 wrote:
Dick J wrote:
Northampton had one main battery director, in a rotating enclosure, above the spotting top on the forward tripod.

Was this director known as the Mark 24?
Dick J wrote:
A second director had been moved from abaft the second stack to a tub on the after tripod.

Again, was this the Mark 24?

I was able to check my Friedman volume last night and the original directors on the Northampton's were the MK-24's. Here is a link to a shot of Chester in 1944: http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/027/0402761.jpg
The forward MK-24 was in a rotating enclosure at the top of the spotting top. You can see it just below the SK radar antenna. Because the enclosed structure carried the weight, the MK-3 fire control radar could be directly attached and is on top of the director. If you look at he after mast, the upper platform carries the AA director (by 1944, Chester had replaced her MK-19's with the MK-33's you can see in the photo), and on the platform directly below it was a "tub" for the after MK-24 director. It was still the pedestal type and, lacking an enclosure, is canvas covered to protect it until needed. Being only a pedestal type, the MK-3 fire control radar couldn't be directly mounted on it and so the radar is bracketed to the back of the structure immediately below the director.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:24 pm
Posts: 9
Additionally the LIFE magazine photos of USS NORTHAMPTON (CA-26) are very useful for smaller details.

The original MK19 director on the early Treaty cruisers had two components, and was certainly obsolete by the mid-Thirties.

Re the upgraded enclosed single MK19 mounts, the Air Defense officer was usually positioned outside the director in a metal chair--as shown in the CA-26 LIFE photos--along with his assistant, spotters & talkers. A junior officer was inside the mount with all of his crew (range keepers/range tender/director trainer/director pointer/cross leveler/RF recorder/phone talker/ gun phone talker/ sound phone talker, etc.) Elsewhere were the associated switchboard operators and plotting room personnel.

The large enclosure below the MK24 director is where the Gunnery Officer was positioned along with his talkers & lookouts, etc. A junior officer was inside the actual director above.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 155 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group