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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:26 am 
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Keith Bender wrote:
That Louisville turret, is it still there ?


It looks to be. I put these coordinates into Google Maps and changed it to satellite view. 37.13945°N 116.10904°W


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:26 pm 
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Anyone have any idea of the work involved in turning the YKM 1943 Louisville into a 1940 USS Houston?

Outside of replacing the 1.1's with 3"/50's, I have no clue. :scratch:

Bob


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:34 am 
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Check the main mast and the positions of the directors. Houston still had the high main mast and the directors not on its top, but behind the rear funnel. The Louisville kit probably has the short main mast with the directors on top of it.

Louisville 1943:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/028/0402803.jpg

Houston 1942:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/030/0403006.jpg

And there is a bigger problem: Louisville had the short forecastle, whereas Houston had the longer one reaching to the catapult (fleet flagship version).

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:25 am 
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Thanks maxim! That's exactly the kind of info I was looking for.

The mainmast I could deal with, but the hull would be a huge problem.

Bob


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:55 pm 
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You would have to extend the forecastle deck to the catapult - not a difficult conversion (in the other direction, removing this extension, would be much more difficult in the case of a resin kit).

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:11 pm 
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Elvis965, you can use sheet plastic to extend the forecastle deck.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:54 pm 
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Now I see what you guys are referring to, after perusing Navsource for a bit.

It looks like Northampton, Chester and Louisville all had the short forecastle deck, and Chicago and Houston had the extended one.

So theoretically Northampton or Louisville could be converted to a 1940's Houston by giving it a taller mainmast & extending the forecastle deck back. Northampton would need to lose the CXAM as well. It looks like that's a solid bulkhead at the end of the deck.

Besides Friedman's US cruisers book, are there any good books dedicated to the Northampton class?

Thanks gents!

Bob


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:21 am 
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The best option for that conversion would be probably:

PROFILE MORSKIE No 144 "American heavy cruiser USS HOUSTON 1942"

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:47 am 
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I didn't even know Profile Morskie did a book on the Houston. I just ordered the plans.

Thanks again, maxim!

Bob


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:58 pm 
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USS Salt Lake City in Hawaiian waters, late December '41.
Attachment:
File comment: Salt Lake City, late December '41 80G 21012
US Cruiser T 80-G-21012.jpg
US Cruiser T 80-G-21012.jpg [ 690.49 KiB | Viewed 1038 times ]

USS Chester, same as above. Both photos from the US National Archives via Roger Torgeson
Attachment:
File comment: Chester Dec '41
US Cruiser S 80-G-21012.jpg
US Cruiser S 80-G-21012.jpg [ 634.04 KiB | Viewed 1038 times ]

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:03 pm 
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Isn't a 1/350 USS Houston (and Chicago) made by Blue Water Navy?

Wouldn't that make for an easier conversion?

MB

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:49 pm 
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MatthewB wrote:
Isn't a 1/350 USS Houston (and Chicago) made by Blue Water Navy?


The old BWN kits can have a 4 piece resin hull (upper & lower bow & stern), making for some fiddly assembling with lots of seams to clean up. I have the old BWN 1944 Enterprise kit that actually has a 6 piece hull.

The Yankee Modelworks Louisville just has an upper & lower hull. YKM also made a Houston, but you rarely see them up for sale. Plus I can get the Louisville for about $60 cheaper than the BWN Houston ATM....

Bob


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:31 pm 
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MartinJQuinn wrote:
USS Salt Lake City in Hawaiian waters, late December '41.
Attachment:
US Cruiser T 80-G-21012.jpg

USS Chester, same as above. Both photos from the US National Archives via Roger Torgeson
Attachment:
US Cruiser S 80-G-21012.jpg


These are Awesome! Thanks for posting these Martin!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:31 pm 
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Question about the directors on Houston after her 1940 Mare Island refit.

I was looking at Mike C's build in the gallery of Houston from that time period, and he has Mark 19 directors on her:

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/ca/ca-30/350-mc/CA30-12.jpg

However, I was talking with Steve Larsen, and he had some info from Tracy White that said only Chester, Chicago and Augusta were known to have the Mark 19's among the Northamptons.

My question is, would Houston have gotten Mark 33's in 1940 at Mare Island? It's hard to tell from the photo's I've found exactly what she has fore and aft for directors. She's always in the background of shots of Chicago.

TIA

Bob


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:54 pm 
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No, CA-30 only had the MK19 directors--a modified subset model, but still a MK19.

These were not very good directors, and CA-30 had trouble w/hers from the time they first went on the ship. However, they were not emplaced at Mare Island, but earlier, and well before her final refit in summer/fall 1940.

To make the ship accurate, you can look at plans for AUGUSTA, her 'sweet sister' as they were the most closely related of the NORTHAMPTON-type flagships. CA-30 is distinguishable by her train-trestle supports for her 1.1" quads, which had two (2) uprights. She also had a small RF sited on her foremast at the MG platform. and it jutted out slightly. Her mainmast was cut down and topped by the navy crew's .50cal position (X4 MG).
Her hull was altered at the hangar, as you know, and made flush then also. Her hangar doors were altered from the original sliding/folding doors to lighter, corrugated garage-door types that went up rather than side to side.

There were no small RFs at the Sky Aft Mk19, but there were deck-mounted metal oberver's chairs there. You can see these in the excellent LIFE magazine photo essay on NORTHAMPTON later.

There are no useful navsource images of the entire ship in her final configuration--although they most certainly exist--but the last of her quad 1.1" mounts went on at Cavite in late 1941.
Her paintjob was a variation of Measure 1 w/the notorious local paint called "Cavite Blue" as the darker hue.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:43 am 
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MartinJQuinn wrote:
USS Salt Lake City in Hawaiian waters, late December '41.
Attachment:
US Cruiser T 80-G-21012.jpg

USS Chester, same as above. Both photos from the US National Archives via Roger Torgeson
Attachment:
US Cruiser S 80-G-21012.jpg



What is the cruiser behind USS Chester in the second photo that looks like it is wearing a Ms. 1 camo and the CXAM radar on the foremast?

MB

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Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:16 pm 
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Most likely Northampton.
Attachment:
File comment: Photo from NHHC
NH 94245.png
NH 94245.png [ 59.88 KiB | Viewed 695 times ]

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:32 pm 
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Attachment:
File comment: CA-30 prewar Ms 1
CA30 Ms1 faded 1941 001.jpg
CA30 Ms1 faded 1941 001.jpg [ 128.24 KiB | Viewed 673 times ]


Here is perhaps the best full length view of HOUSTON showing her in Ms 1 (ca 1941), and how rapidly it faded in the very intense P.I. sun...The photo is an original from the collection of the late Otto Schwarz.


Last edited by Guro Optimo on Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:18 am 
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USS HOUSTON was painted in Cavite Blue as a substitute for 5-D paint in the Philippines. She never had 5-D paint applied. Cavite Blue was a local produced paint since Cavite Navy Yard wasn't getting supplies of the official camo paints. The paint faded and wasn't very durable. See attached from USS HOUSTON. She was at first painted to Ms 1 scheme, but used the Cavite Blue in place of 5-D. Sometime before December 1941 the upper works/masts were also repainted with Cavite Blue. Hence to basically the Ms 1A or Ms 11 scheme only with Cavite Blue.


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zdocCaviteBlue.jpg
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:09 am 
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I thought Hart's reply re the Ms 1 paint scheme & "Cavite Blue" (as shown) was dated Dec. 6, 1941 (IIRC) and so may not have much relevance for final paintjobs on the ship(s).
(By that I only mean there is no visual evidence that CA-30 ever painted in an overall blue scheme, and much anecdotal evidence--from survivors--that they had no time for that by then...)
This isn't an argument that I would defend too strenuously, but many men said she never did any overall painting after she left Cavite Navy Yd on Dec. 1, 1941 for Iloilo.
I would say that nothing of the sort appears in her Deck Logs, but such activities were not recorded in logs anyway. However, I've not yet come across any officers or enlisted men stating that they recalled painting the ship that late in the day.
We do know that they didn't begin putting on the "battle plates" over their portholes until after getting news that PH was bombed on Dec. 8.

FWIW


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