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PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:06 pm 
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So all the plans that show a perforated pattern are wrong? Maybe an example of not knowing and assuming the scource you are basing your drawings on are correct?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:38 am 
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Location: Laurieton , Australia
Here is the bow forefoot Dan.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 1:28 am 
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Brett Morrow wrote:
Here is the bow forefoot Dan.

Any date for that photo Brett?

And is that a crop from a larger photo?

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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 5:31 am 
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Kevin, the image is cropped from a larger shot, it is Sumatra, not sure of the time frame.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:50 am 
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Thanks, that nails it


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:28 am 
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Brett Morrow wrote:
Kevin, the image is cropped from a larger shot, it is Sumatra, not sure of the time frame.


Thanks Brett. Interesting how in actuality (i.e. in the photo) the bow stem seems to have a rounded 'curve' upwards as opposed to the more 'hard' up-angle that some renderings show.

Clarification edit: Replaced the word 'drawings' with 'renderings'.

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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942


Last edited by KevinD on Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2022 12:17 pm 
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DavidP wrote:
the picture appears to match my drawing in that area.


Yes I should have written 'renderings' (as in 2nd party renderings) as opposed to 'drawings', which might be taken to mean plans, which was not my intent. I'll change that wording now.

I meant like below for instance. Or were the two ships (Java & Sumatra) different at the bow?


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Blueprints-Java-class.gif
Blueprints-Java-class.gif [ 35.35 KiB | Viewed 1190 times ]

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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:56 am 
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DavidP wrote:
mine is a drawing dated 1926 possibly by Vlissingen Augustus

But which 'view' does yours show, that is like what Brett posted, or in the 'rendering' I posted?

If you look closely at Brett's photo, you can see what appears to be a line (join?) along where my red arrows now point, so I wonder if that 'triangular' piece / area forward of those arrows was added at some stage?

Further below is another 'drawing' I found on-line that shows that heavily slanted bottom part of the lower bow stem. Are these 'renderings / drawings' just wrong, or is that how the ships were originally built?


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bow-copy.jpg
bow-copy.jpg [ 83.4 KiB | Viewed 1152 times ]
hr-ms-java-1918-light-cruiser.jpg
hr-ms-java-1918-light-cruiser.jpg [ 127.1 KiB | Viewed 1152 times ]

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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 3:24 am 
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The Skeg appears to have been an afterthought.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 4:02 am 
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Brett Morrow wrote:
The Skeg appears to have been an afterthought.

Who'se that being launched Brett, Java or Sumatra?

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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942


Last edited by KevinD on Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:10 am 
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The launch image is tagged as Java, what are you looking for Kevin ?
If DavidP`s drawing is dated 1926 and it is official ? it`s a fair assumption that the modification was performed on both ships fairly early.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:52 am 
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Brett Morrow wrote:
The launch image is tagged as Java, what are you looking for Kevin ?
If DavidP`s drawing is dated 1926 and it is official ? it`s a fair assumption that the modification was performed on both ships fairly early.

Thanks Brett. And no particular thing I was looking for, just a general interest in pics (of the Class, particularly Java) that I havent seen before.

And of course the 'skeg' (or forefoot) photo you posted upthread was Sumatra, as you had said that before, so not sure why I foolishly asked that a second time (which I have now edited out to at least try and hide my failing memory :wave_1: ). Gettin' old I guess, or trying to juggle too many things at once on the computer. Both probably!. :bash_2:

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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:39 am 
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Sorry if you guys already familiar with these drawings. But this is what the original ship plan shows. To me it looks like solid plate with ribbing and two holes for cables.

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:57 pm 
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Paper Lab wrote:
Sorry if you guys already familiar with these drawings. But this is what the original ship plan shows. To me it looks like solid plate with ribbing and two holes for cables.
No, I had not seen those before..........unless that is the plan/s that are in the Dutch language 'Java and Sumatra Cruisers' book (by, at a guess, Mulder?), which I have but it's half a world away now. :roll_eyes: Thanks for posting those.

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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 1:46 pm 
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I'm not familiar with that book. Plans I posted are copies of originals from Dutch archives. You can see the whole set plus many many more here:
https://www.nationaalarchief.nl/onderzoeken/archief/4.MST/invnr/%401


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2022 11:34 pm 
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Looks like that foot at the bow was added for streaming paravanes for mine sweeping. The cables would be led through the holes. It certainly looks like an afterthought.

Phil

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2024 5:09 am 
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Just thought I'd resurrect this thread with a wonderful painting done of Dr Ruyter by Maarten Platje.
https://maartenplatje.com/product/art-p ... 45+x+60+cm

Seems to portray the moment during the B of JS on 27-2-42 just after Exeter took the 8" hit and starts to sheer away astern of DR.


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De-Slag-in-de-Javazee-by-Maarten-Platje.jpg
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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942


Last edited by KevinD on Mon Feb 12, 2024 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2024 5:30 am 
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And whose firing on the Allies? These two, Nachi and Haguro (right) depicted in that very same gunfire exchange; from a print by Jim Laurier.
https://www.jimlaurier.com/

Unfortunately it was 'painted' and published reversed in the book it was originally commissioned for, that is with the ships firing to starboard.


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Nachi-and-Haguro-during-Battle-of-the-Java-Sea.jpg
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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942
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