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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:28 pm 
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I'm going to be unpacking these two half built ship kits soon. So, lets get this thread going of these two famous Battle of the Java Sea veterans.

My first question is, how accurate is the latest Profile Morskie DeRuyter 1942 depicting her with the green camouflage at the time of her loss?



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:47 pm 
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Good question. As far as I know, only her port side was photographed and I've seen only two photographs (matching the scheme). As the Polish books draw heavily on other sources, I guess they took it from another publication or drawing, possibly a paper model? I know Java had a similar scheme which was not symmetrical. Don't know about the colors. The Polish publication did miss that the De Ruyter had new cranes fitted prior to her loss, but as far as I can tell the Polish reference is pretty solid.

FYI, there is an excellent thread running on a Dutch navy forum right here showing images from books you can only get at specialized antique book shops

De Ruyter @ Dutchfleet.net

Java @ Dutchfleet.net

There is a Profile Warship volume of De Ruyter with good text, but the image quality is lousy.

Recommended publications are

H.J. Legemaate et al., 1999, Hr. Ms. Kruiser "De Ruyter" 1933 - 1942, Asia Maior, ISBN 90 74861 15 6

J. Anten et al., 2001, Hr. Ms. Kruisers Java en Sumatra, Asia Maior, ISBN 90 74861 18 0

Both are in Dutch but have many drawings and photographs. Printing quality is excellent. Also out of print.

A nice link is

http://www.netherlandsnavy.nl/

Drawings can be obtained here:

http://www.modelbouwers.nl/tekeningenschepen.html

They also have drawings of the Fokker C-XIw reconnaissance airplane, of which only 15 were ever built and not present on the ships during the final battle.

It's also in Dutch, but self-explanatory. I suppose you have to email them to get the drawings.

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Last edited by EJFoeth on Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:23 pm 
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Hi EJ:

I have the two Asia Maior books on the Java and DeRuyter. Both are excellent references. I have to unpack them from recently moving.

I started the HP kits of the DeRuyter and Java a couple of years ago using the said above books for a guide, and painted them from I thought using British colors. The colors I used were 507a, 507b, and 507c. The major color used for both ships being 507c. How correct I am, I have no idea. The recent thought of using a green was kind of a surprise to me.

Maybe Alan Raven might have an idea of this subject?

Also, could a Chicago Blue have been used?


So many questions, of a very interesting subject.



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:47 am 
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Hi Bob,

Interesting ships indeed. I had De Ruyter in my hands a few years ago but went to buy Tromp instead. Shamefully when I got back to the shop De Ruyter was no longer there!!!!
The only references I have around here is the Warship Profile wrote by famous Java Campaign historian F. C. van Oosten. It's a good reference though OOP.
Regarding the paints used on her final camo I would rather go with the RN colours or RNN colours for the simple fact that she was either painted in Singapure, Tandjung Priok but most likely Soerabaya. I don't think USN colours would be in use in those bases.
Just my 2 cents. Eager to follow this CASF as well.
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Filipe

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:39 pm 
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Hi Filipe:

I'll be wanting to get the Tromp in the near future as well. :wave_1:

There is still so much unknown information about these ships and their Admiralen destroyer escorts out there. Especially during their last sortie.



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:32 pm 
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i built the HP De Ruyter...nice little kit but a little sparse on the details.

since i didn't want to buy the PM book on her to get an idea of that green camo, i just did her up in all gray. i have their Johann Maurits van Nassau in the stash too. man is it ever small.

someone recently built a scratch 1/700 Java...looked great.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:48 am 
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I built the HP Java; needed the book to correct inaccuracies.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:28 pm 
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Here she is with USS HOUSTON:


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:58 pm 
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Thats the two tone camo scheme that I did as well, using the book as a guide.




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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:56 am 
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Two tones? My book says three.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:53 am 
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Isn't that the Sumatras camo pattern?




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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:32 am 
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Ah, could be!

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:43 pm 
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To me, Java & Sumatra are the most handsome cruisers ever built. One of them is on my wish list for a 1/100 RC scratchbuilt model.

Regards,

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:20 pm 
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EJFoeth wrote:
Ah, could be!


Yup, that's Sumatra indeed. The only photo I have from Sumatra with camo scheme matches this profile. Java's camo scheme though following the same principles has only two colours and it's slightly different.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:23 pm 
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I don't have the Java book unpacked yet, but could she possibly be wearing any camouflage on her stacks and fore pole mast? I'm trying to remember what I saw in the 1942 photos of her a while back.

Also, isn't there supposed to be a book release by Asia Maior on the Dutch Admiralen Class destroyers?




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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:48 am 
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Quincy wrote:
Also, isn't there supposed to be a book release by Asia Maior on the Dutch Admiralen Class destroyers?
Bob Pink.


Last news is the project was put on the backburner. A shame if you ask me.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:50 pm 
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MichelB wrote:
Quincy wrote:
Also, isn't there supposed to be a book release by Asia Maior on the Dutch Admiralen Class destroyers?
Bob Pink.


Last news is the project was put on the backburner. A shame if you ask me.



Boy, you said it. :Tirade:




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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:00 pm 
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Yup, it's really a shame!! So few is published, at least in English, on these destroyers and yet, they did so much during the Dutch East Indies Campaign until their final doom.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:27 pm 
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Gents,

Just briefly.

If you want that Dutch DD book published then contact Asia Maior and express you interest now! It is not too late. One and I repeat ‘one’ of the reasons for the delay is that there were only a couple, literally, of expressions of interest prior to postponement of publication, mine being one. :smallsmile: (AM having themselves partly to blame for that though as they did not even advertise it on their site!) Talking with the author again recently another of the holdups has been a change of editor. So it still looks a ways off yet but…………………….don‘t give up hope.

Second, if building De Ruyter as she looked during the Battle of the Java Sea make sure you add the protective ‘face plates’ to her Bofors. Very few pics exist of these (one is in one of the Dutch cruiser books IIRC, although off hand I can’t recall which of the books) and they seem to have been installed only in the months before her demise. Even one of the officers in charge of her Bofors station (who was still alive some years ago) had forgotten they were there, so used was he to them being without the face plates. It took a pic of them from the wreck of DR to convince him the actually existed! And Java’s Bofors also has them.

PS. And if you want dual Dutch / English captions on at least the images in the DD book, express that interest also! :thumbs_up_1:


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 5:59 pm 
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Thanks Kevin. :big_grin: Will do. English captions are a must.



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