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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:33 pm 
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Yes, it seems (but the text doesn't mention does explicitly and it's not my subject!) that the camouflage was added during the same refit when the plans were landed. I do speak Dutch, but the text is not more clear. You could try the Dutchfleet.net forum; they know their business!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:56 pm 
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Thank you! I posted the question there.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:49 am 
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I have checked the photos in the book by Anten more carefully. On page 119 a photo of Java made late 1941 or early 1942 is depicted. It shows the first camouflage pattern.

Here is a part of it magnified:
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The arrows point to what are possible the wings and engine/rotor of a Fokker C.XI-w. What do you think?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 9:47 am 
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You convinced me :thumbs_up_1:


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:52 am 
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Location: Monson, MA.
New kit of DeRuyter from Niko Models to go along with their Java kit.



Bob Pink. :wave_1:


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:22 am 
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The Java kit (and the Profile Morskie about the Java) has a small mistake: the bridge is in the pre-1937 fit. The bridge wings were enlarged in 1937.

The Java kit also do not contain informations about the camouflage pattern and I consider the structures on the hull sides to be too prominent. But otherwise it is a nice kit.

Image

Image
source

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 1:45 pm 
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Your Java looks excellent Maxim! :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:




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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:53 am 
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All

I'd love to purchase a RNN De Ruyter or a Java model - however they seem as scarce as hens teeth

Any idea who manafactures them in 1/700 scale?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:50 am 
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Both ships produced in 1/700 by Niko Models (and also HP Models).

Niko Models should be easily available, e.g. here:

https://www.whiteensignmodels.com/p/Niko+1700+Netherlands+Light+Cruiser+Java+1942+/9302/

WEM should soon also have the De Ruyter kit.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:39 pm 
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Hoping someone may be able to answer the question of camouflage worn by Java in early 42.
I have attached a small profile which I believe may have come from Willigenburg`s book, the starboard pattern is quite previlent on the net but dosen`t match photo`s , specifically the stern quarter.
I cannot ascertain the port pattern as I have not seen any port photo`s, and I do not have the Anten book to reference.
Has someone got it wrong and all the sheep have tagged along? or did Java have an earlier pattern which was modified before her loss?
Thanks for any clarity forwarded on this issue.


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JAVA CAMO.jpg
JAVA CAMO.jpg [ 51.06 KiB | Viewed 998 times ]
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:09 am 
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Java certainly had also a different pattern:
http://www.go2war2.nl/picture.asp?pictureid=5677
http://www.go2war2.nl/artikel/1924/Lichte-kruisers-van-de-Java-klasse.htm?page=5

Image
Image
http://www.modellmarine.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3006:leichter-kreuzer-java-1700-niko-models-von-lars-scharff&catid=112

I am not sure, if she ever had the pattern you had attached.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:00 am 
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I don't know much about Java, but agree the scheme doesn't match the photographs. I did compare the scheme from the same book with what's known of De Ruyter and the book didn't make sense at all.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:47 am 
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Thanks for replying guys, judging by the number of hits on the profile there are a lot who are interested in this issue, but either don`t know or are reluctant to share info.
The Java camo question seems to be very fragmented and inconclusive indeed, interestingly the starboard scheme appears on the dust cover of Henk van Willigenburg`s book. Could the patterns hold some truth in that they are an early scheme which was modified later?

Java is one of those interesting subjects where it is impossible to identify if the photo has been reversed, without a known landmark, and much confussion surrounds her final appearance, although the shot taken from starboard stern quarter in Batavia harbour, I believe to be one of the last, and accurate.
On enlargement you can see that the bofors appear to have received shields which would be about the time De ruyter`s Bofors were fitted too.
Also of interest, the Depth charge racks.
The model shots you posted Maxim appear to have some acceptance as the last pattern worn, but I would be very interested where this interpretation came from, especially with the conjecture surrounding any bands applied to the funnels.

Here is a shot of what is alledged to be a portside shot of Java, found on the Dutchfleet site, I have also posted this shot first on the Kookaburra`s Flikr Photostream, of which I am a dedicated supporter.
It appears to be heavily censored with no armament visible and if it can be believed true, it is unique and the only portside shot I have ever seen of Java in camo, reported to be taken from HMAS Hobart on 14/02/1942 in the vicinity of Lampoengbaai, I have no idea where the poster got this photo.
With the inconclusive evidence available, it would seem that no one is in a position to challenge any scheme applied to a model of Java, at present.
Can anyone post a profile ,even a small one, reported to be last applied, from Antens book?


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JAVA PORTSIDE.jpg
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:01 am 
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In Anten's is no profile of Java's camouflage pattern included. There is a profile with a pattern, but which was apparently (according to the author) not used on Java (perhaps on Sumatra).

The photo you have linked is included in Anten's book - and it is very strange, because of the lack of the 15 cm guns etc.

My model is based on these two photos plus the one I have linked above. I have not built the last fit with the shields for the 4 cm guns and depth charge racks, because I wanted to depict also the two Fokker airplanes, which were not present during the Battle of the Java Sea.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:22 am 
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Thanks Maxim, yes the shot appears heavily censored, also the removal of the trailing funnel searchlight platform.
The puzzle continues.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:30 am 
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If you look at other Dutch ships of the same period, you see a few dark bands but not running over the stern. Note the step on the forward dark area present for all three ships. I added the Sumatra scheme from Anten's book showing a different colour scheme. I'd throw van Willigenburg out and not worry about it further.


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Admiralen_camouflage.jpg
Admiralen_camouflage.jpg [ 98.23 KiB | Viewed 923 times ]
AWM_305844.jpg
AWM_305844.jpg [ 60.17 KiB | Viewed 923 times ]
Anten009s.jpg
Anten009s.jpg [ 108.34 KiB | Viewed 923 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:00 am 
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A very interesting point on the other patterns, the Sumatra pattern follows very different symmetry, thanks for posting.
I would guess the Sumatra scheme must be after mid 42, seems to follow loosely the second pattern applied to Tromp, any correction accepted.
You know, for the life of me I cannot find that forum again where I originally got the Java profile.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:07 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:53 am 
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Hi guys I'm chasing plans with full hull lines of the light cruiser Tromp I have both the Java and De Ruyter in 1/72 scale for future builds but would really like the Tromp also. Any idea of where to start? I've had no luck what so ever though have seen a few large scale models around.
Thanks

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:47 am 
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I found two versions here

http://www.modelbouwers.nl/webwinkel/infonew.php?tek_ID=10.11.016&dbnr=10110160&foto=&webshop=nee

http://www.modelbouwers.nl/webwinkel/infonew.php?tek_ID=16.11.046&dbnr=16110460&foto=&webshop=nee

Algemeen plan. Spantenplan en lijnenplan. Zijaanzicht. Dekken.
=
General arrangement, Frames and Lines. Side view. Decks.

I have no idea how good these drawings are but probably better than none at all...


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