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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:55 pm 
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working on St Louis...need help with color ID when attatched to Cruser Division 9 along with Helena...turret tops


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:13 pm 
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john bange wrote:
working on St Louis...need help with color ID when attatched to Cruser Division 9 along with Helena...turret tops




Well John, It looks like no one knows anything about these ships, and I thought Cadman did. :heh: :heh: :wave_1:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:19 pm 
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John,

What time frame? For reference on the Helena, check out Ron Smith's build of her circa 1942, by clicking here

In summary, he says: She is painted in Ms21 (other than the deck blue problem) with her #2 and #4 turrets color coded for identification by her scout planes. Photos show her leaving Mare Island after her refit with her turrets still coded. They appear to have light grey roofs with the willow green markings. Cruiser Division 9, assigned to Battle Force 1, had two willow green stripes on the forward turret. Helena is supposed to have been ship #5 in the division, and would have a willow green square on her aft turret. Notice the willow green was painted right over the rafts.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:30 pm 
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Some Brooklyn/Helena Class builds here on Modelwarships.com, Part 1:

Ron Smith's USS Helena

Santiago Ezcurra's ARA General Belgrano

John Bange's USS Honolulu

Christoph Mentzel's USS St. Louis and USS Honolulu

Ian Gilbert's USS Honolulu

Walt Plucinski's USS Boise

Bob Harris' USS Nashville

Dave Becker's (remember him!) USS Phoenix

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:31 pm 
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Part 2 of the Brooklyn/Helena class models on MW.com (the new board only let's you enter 10 hyperlinks at a time):

Pete Benoit's USS Honolulu and USS Helena

Lester Abbey's USS Helena

Tim "Cadman" Dike's USS Phoenix

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:08 pm 
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Here are some pictures that are 2/3 appropriate for the thread. Late 1944 1/350 waterline Nashville (ISW), Wichita (scratch) and St. Louis (YMW), I call this group "variations on a hull".

Jim


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MVC-107F.JPG [ 191.8 KiB | Viewed 7009 times ]
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MVC-108F.JPG [ 188.11 KiB | Viewed 7022 times ]
MVC-109F.JPG
MVC-109F.JPG [ 158.12 KiB | Viewed 7063 times ]

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:26 pm 
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Hi Guys, I reserrected this thread to find out if anyone knew anything about it.
I am looking to build USS HELENA CL 50 in 1/96 scale , It depends on what drawings our friend BILL brings with him, it could be any one of the class, we will decide then , :woo_hoo: :woo_hoo: :woo_hoo: :woo_hoo: :heh: :heh: :thumbs_up_1:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:24 pm 
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Great looking cruiser :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: good job :thumbs_up_1:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:48 am 
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thanks guys...I was looking for the color of the turret tops for St louis...admired Ron Smith's Helana so much, I wanted to try one from the same era. lacking info and my "relaxed" need for accuracy, I took a guess. john


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:12 pm 
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I'm not sure what her exact colors were. Ron Smith should be able to answer that.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 2:23 pm 
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Cadman wrote:
I'm not sure what her exact colors were. Ron Smith should be able to answer that.


Not really.........I just googled CruDiv and went from there. Anyone can google it themselves.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:05 pm 
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john bange wrote:
working on St Louis...need help with color ID when attatched to Cruser Division 9 along with Helena...turret tops




USS St Louis ( CL 49 ) wore an overall Measure 21 Navy Blue scheme in 1942 and 1943. I don't know if it was attached to CruDiv 9 in these years................ but October 1940, found the ST. LOUIS was operating out of Pearl Harbor, attached to Cruiser Division 9, Pacific Fleet. ......USS Helena sunk in 1943...... St Louis remained attached to CruDiv 9 fm 40 to 43?
By 1944 St Louis was camouflaged in Measure 32/2 C, the medium pattern system. The ship wore this scheme for one year until repainted in Measure 21.
Helena and St Louis were equiped with 2 catapults, and aircraft handling crane, and a below deck hangar for operating floatplanes.The hangar door set into the deck between the 2 catapults, has been moved forward under the number 5 turret. USS Helena was comissioned in 1939, and in 1941/1942 her AA armament was increased to 40 mm Boffors AA weapons, and these guns were supplemented by 20 mm Oerlikon cannons...... ARH, be aware that the ship was modified by this period............

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Last edited by Jimmy Conway on Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:46 pm 
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ARH wrote:
Hi Guys, I resurrected this thread to find out if anyone knew anything about it.
I am looking to build USS HELENA CL 50 in 1/96 scale , It depends on what drawings our friend BILL brings with him, it could be any one of the class, we will decide then , :woo_hoo: :woo_hoo: :woo_hoo: :woo_hoo: :heh: :heh: :thumbs_up_1:





:big_grin: :thumbs_up_1: Nice choice..... it will be a great model!!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:10 pm 
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john bange wrote:
thanks guys...I was looking for the color of the turret tops for St louis...admired Ron Smith's Helana so much, I wanted to try one from the same era. lacking info and my "relaxed" need for accuracy, I took a guess. john





John, the measure for St Louis in 1942/43 meant the word OVERALL .......and the turret tops would be in the same painting..................

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:17 pm 
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:thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 12:27 pm 
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Jimmy Conway wrote:
john bange wrote:
thanks guys...I was looking for the color of the turret tops for St louis...admired Ron Smith's Helana so much, I wanted to try one from the same era. lacking info and my "relaxed" need for accuracy, I took a guess. john

John, the measure for St Louis in 1942/43 meant the word OVERALL .......and the turret tops would be in the same painting..................


Actually, the turret tops would be like the rest of the vertical surfaces, deck blue. You can see the difference between the sides and the tops of the turrets in this picture of St. Louis at Mare Island in March 1942. Picture is from NavSource.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:49 pm 
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Quote:
Actually, the turret tops would be like the rest of the vertical surfaces, deck blue. You can see the difference between the sides and the tops of the turrets in this picture of St. Louis at Mare Island in March 1942. Picture is from NavSource.



Nice comment Martins, thanks.....

HELENA foc’sle deck was covered with steel plating back to the base of number 1 turret. Lightly stained wood planking covered the deck further aft. This deck was later painted Deck Blue during the war. HELENA was painted in measure 21 navy blue when sunk.
I can imagine that St Louis had the same painting in the decks during wartime.
St Louis was transferred to Brazilian Navy in the 50's and in the 70's, I remember, main deck had wood planking but not painted. When decomissioned, in the 80's, I took some photograph in the aft turret number 5.... would love to find that to scan and show...... :heh:
Nice regards: Jimmy

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:07 am 
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Greetings

I have just acquired the YMW version of USS Brooklyn in 1/350 scale, which comes as a 1942 version. I would appreciate any advice on references etc available for turning the kit into a pre-war version of the ship. The kit is very good (excellent fit between the upper and lower hull,and no voids, pinholes or other problems in any of the parts - really impressed for a US resin kit actually), and most of the wartime additions such as splinter shielding for the 5.25 guns appear to be separate and hence easily omitted, but plans for a pre-war Brooklyn or sister vessel appear hard to find. I have Friedman's US Cruisers, which has a small plan of Brooklyn, but any advice on backdating, omission of King Board AA updates (eg, 1.1 inch guns) would be appreciated, as would any advice of references, plans etc.

The quality of the kit is so good that I am very tempted to complete full hull in Standard Navy Gray,Deck Gray and natural wood deck as a complement to my other pre-wwII US Navy builds.

kind regards

Stephen Allen


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:04 am 
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Stephen,

I think you will make a very attractive ship. You are not going to do much better than the plans on page 199 of Friedman's Cruiser book (drg x 2.16 = 350 and drg x 755.5 = actual), and since you are just modifying an already good kit this plan should be sufficient. Also, you already have a good knowledge of what you want to remove (King board additions) this drawing shows you what you have to make.

The list below is a guess of what you need and what is in the YKM kit

The 8 objects on the superstructure tops are .5" mg's (scratch).

2 boat cranes (scratch + PE), a source of PE is Toms heavy or light cruiser set. Print out a pic of the set and use the cats as a size key.

6 boats
2 26' whale boats should be in the kit
2 40' open
1 36' covered
1 34' covered
If you do not have the boats in the kit or in your stash, cannot or will not ask for them, buy a Banner Arizona.

Jim

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:14 am 
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Jim,

Thanks for that list and the Arizona idea. I'm about to start the CW Wichita in pre-war fit; your suggestions will go a long way to solving some of the questions I have as well. I have Wiper's book on the Wichita and the drawings cover everything I need, I just was unsure of where to get those boats!

I agree that the CW cruiser kits are ripe candidates for pre-war configurations with all of the separate platforms, tubs and weapons.

-Devin

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