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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 1:45 pm 
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Since Hasagawa has released a Yahagi kit, I think it is useful to have a thread dedicated to this class. First question:

What are the steps needed to back date the very late-war Yahagi to an early war Agano class CL?

Moderator Edit: Added the following, courtesy of Dan Kaplan
Agano Class Gallery Entries:
1/200 Scale
A superbly detailed, scratchbuilt R/C version by Ronald Chan: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

1/350 Scale
A very nice build of Yahagi 1945 by Zdenek Krcmar: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Another great build by Peter Van Buren: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Yahagi by Bill Kluge: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
A nicely waterlined Yahagi by Kym Knight: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
An exquisite, crisp build of Yahagi 1945 by Ievgen Timonin: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm
A build of the Yahagi by Claudio Cruciani: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm
A very nice build of class leader Agano in 1943 by Robert Apfelzweig: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm
Anthony Alvear's Hasegawa Yahagi (1945): http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm

1/700 Scale
Yahagi by Alec Cap: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Agano by Zenden Ng: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Another Agano by Witold Kosinski: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
A beautifully detailed Yahagi in her final sortie fit by Huang Ming-hsiang: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
A conversion of the Yahagi kit to Noshiro, 1944 by Dan Kaplan: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Another Yahagi by Waldo Silva: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Another Agano by Fred Poon: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Yahagi by Paul Helfrich: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
Yet another Yahagi by Tamiya Wang: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
A pretty nice build of Yahagi by Adrian Koh: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html
A truly outstanding build of the venerable Tamiya kit by Anthony Kochevar: http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... /index.htm

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:54 pm 
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Changes have do with the removal (yes) of some of the wind baffles in front of the bridge, and the deck of the aircraft handling deck. Plus, no radar, and the mounting of the Type 94 HA directors in positions forward atop the a/c handling deck. Can;t remember about the searchlights right now.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:00 pm 
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Let's post a couple of pix of Agano vs some of the other sisters, see the changes to the bridge can be seen.

Below is Agano on trials Oct. 1942 and a painting of her, both which show her bridge baffles setup well.


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Agano on trials 1942 small.jpg
Agano on trials 1942 small.jpg [ 80.59 KiB | Viewed 5658 times ]
Agano by Takeshi Yuki.jpg
Agano by Takeshi Yuki.jpg [ 97.62 KiB | Viewed 5680 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:03 pm 
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Next is a colorized version of Noshiro on trials. Note the absence of the lower row of bridge baffles. Alos, Noshiro was a transition ship; her Type 94 directors were later moved to separate towers forward of th ea/c deck, as with Yahagi and Sakawa. There's also a counterweight on her catapult in this shot.


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Noshiro, 1942 small.jpg
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:06 pm 
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And, from the private collection of Alan McGivern, who posted it on the j-aircraft.com ship board some time ago, is an excellent, rare close-up of Sakawa's bridge, postwar. Great detail. Yahagi and Noshiro are virtually identical to Sakawa in this respect.


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Sakawa postwar bridge, from Alan McGivern.jpg
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:45 pm 
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Here's Yahagi as comissioned. Note that, as designed, her Type 94 directors and (2) searchlights have been combined atop a slim support on either side of her funnel.


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Yahagi on trials, 12-19-43 color.jpg
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:50 pm 
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What is often not realized, even by the otherwise fine LaCroix and Welles book, is that Yahagi (and Noshiro, & Sakawa) had this set-up revised in 1944 so that there was one centerline searchlight and the director placed upon revised structures that house additonal crew, or act as "resting" stations. Photo and crop are of Yahagi under attack on the Ten Ichi go mission, just before being sunk. Source is the Shizui Fukui 2 vol. set.


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Yahagi overhead, 4-45  Fukui 2 vol version alt B.jpg
Yahagi overhead, 4-45 Fukui 2 vol version alt B.jpg [ 136.53 KiB | Viewed 5661 times ]
Yahagi overhead, 4-45  Fukui 2 vol version, closeup copy.jpg
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:54 pm 
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To further answer Chuck's initial question, Agano's a/c handling deck is also solid, and covered with linoleum.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:24 pm 
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Dan, is the relacation of the AA director something unique to the Yahagi or were the AA director on all the ships moved?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:44 pm 
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Chuck, if you are referring to the Type 94HA directors, then Noshiro and Yahagi had theirs resited at some point to the identical set-up as in Yahagi's last fit. Sakawa always had this set-up.

Incidentally, it's possible that Hasegawa may be palnning to release an Agano. THere are 4 long, blank inserts strips that are glued to the hull, in horizontal cutouts. I've been told by a reliable source that this option was use to represent versions with and with out portholes. An Agano version would have these strips with portholes in place.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:54 pm 
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Thanks for those shots Dan! question , now that i look at Sakawa's bridge structure (awesome shot i must say) was the conning tower or wheel house's bulkhead as thick as the rest of the structure ? or thicker? not only on this one but overall on all heavies i know the answer for the battleships but i've always wondered this question on the heavy cruisers. could've those wheel houses withstood any caliber bullets like the nigthmerish .50 cal? TIA

Jose


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:00 am 
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Thanks Dan for posting that photo of Sakawa’s bridge which I had not seen before.

Here is one of what it looks like ‘today’ (or more factually, several years ago now); all but the port side buried in the bottom of the atoll.

A few more shots of the wreck can be found on this page also http://www.arawasi.jp/ijn/album-KD.html


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Sakawa bridge.jpg
Sakawa bridge.jpg [ 57.83 KiB | Viewed 5652 times ]

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:32 pm 
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Jose, I'm not sure. L & W refers to it as an armored wheelhouse, but there are no specifics.

Kevin - an equally nice after shot.

Some more Sakawa photos, some known (and colorized), others from Alan McGivern's collection)


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Sakawa 1946.jpg
Sakawa 1946.jpg [ 102.27 KiB | Viewed 5663 times ]
Sakawa Bridge closeup.jpg
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Sakawa postwar, from Alan McGivern.jpg
Sakawa postwar, from Alan McGivern.jpg [ 60.14 KiB | Viewed 5653 times ]
Sakawa postwar, turret#2, from Alan McGivern.jpg
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:47 pm 
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Judging from the scuttles, I presume the turrets are unarmored?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:28 pm 
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Dan, is there any official explanation why the new Aganos class CL are given the old 1912 vintage Vicker 6" guns instead of new Mogami 6" guns which are ballistically far superior? One would think the better ballistics of the new gun would confer a big advantage in fast moving engagements against enemy destroyers which would probably have been the main type of engagement envisioned for Agano in the destroyer leader role?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:09 pm 
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I'm gonna have to get back to you on these, Chuck. Want to check L&W about turret armor, or lack thereof. Same with the mounts. It's possible that the reuse of the guns was driven by both the short leadtime and the corresponding lack of available gun construction facilities and materials. In other words, expediancy.

Also, I think the Mogami barrels are significantly larger/longer, which would require a larger turret and barbette.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:35 pm 
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Dan K wrote:
Jose, I'm not sure. L & W refers to it as an armored wheelhouse, but there are no specifics.


i've checked my Takao book several times and i have read "protected" wheelhouse but that is as far as it goes there are no specifics either. there is no way these heavy cruisers like any other would've had a conning tower with the thickness of those of battleships that is out of the question. however this place was probably one of the safests spots on the mainstructure. When the strafing came the last place i would've wanted to be at got to be the compass bridge that is for sure..


Jose


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:47 am 
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Didn't the Mogami barrels go to the Yamato's?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:41 am 
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Sean Hert wrote:
Didn't the Mogami barrels go to the Yamato's?


Yes, but only there were a lot of leftovers.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:06 pm 
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From L&W:

Wheelhouse protected by CNC steel plate, 40mm in front, 200m side, 30mm overhead, 16mm Ducol steel rear

Main armament design same as those that equipped secondary armament on Japanese built Kongo Class and Fuso class BBs. Not specific on whether it is the same design or actual armament transferred.

Main mounts are gunhouses (no central trunk per turrets, only a pivot point) with handling rooms underneath. Protection is 19mm steel plate all around.


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