The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:24 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 286 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:12 pm
Posts: 2086
no problem, teach & learn.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:27 am
Posts: 614
Location: Kingston, Jamaica
Hi all,

(Edited thanks to Brett's post below!)

Forgive me if this has been picked up before - I didn't really go through the whole thread - I just noticed that there was variation in Dorsetshire's 1941 camo scheme - specifically on the hull. The length of the lighter-coloured section varied - it looks like during the Bismarck operation it was longer.

I took a "screen shot" from the "After the Bismarck" British Pathe newsreel of her docked at the quayside and noticed that the lighter section began between the first and second portholes behind the anchors.

Attachment:
File comment: Screen shot of Dorsetshire quayside after Bismarck operation
Dorsetshire after Bismarck operation 2.jpg
Dorsetshire after Bismarck operation 2.jpg [ 223.62 KiB | Viewed 1067 times ]


But when I looked at two more broadside photos, it is clear that one of them has it starting much further back while another matched. The aft end point also differs.

Image

Image

In late 1941 (not as sunk!), it started just forward of A-turret and ended just aft of Y. Aoshima's Indian Ocean Raid model uses this scheme which is incorrect for the as sunk depiction.

But during the Bismarck operation in May 1941, that section ran from just behind the hawsepipes to just a few portholes forward of the stern walk. (So if Aoshima uses the same scheme for both models, it will be wrong for both!)

Some photos I've seen suggest there may have been 3 shades used (as suggested by Monty Mills’ illustration) – such as the photo on the worldwar.co.uk Dorsetshire page makes it look like there are 3 shades.

https://www.world-war.co.uk/Dorset/dorset.php3 (second photo from bottom)

Image

But another print of the same photo which (from Raven & Roberts) is posted on P.9 of this thread looks like 2 shades and states in the caption that the darker shade may have been Mountbatten Pink rather than Home Fleet grey as one might initially assume.

MBP was in used in a number of Home Fleet cruisers in 1941 – Aurora, Galatea, Manchester to name some – so why not Dorsetshire?

So, is it 2 or 3 shades? Is the photo on the WW2 cruisers site a case of B&W photo variation causing it to just look like 3?

In any case for May 1941 and late 1941, there is undoubtedly a difference in the hull pattern, with the former fit having a longer lighter-coloured streak along the upper hull.

Thoughts?

Paul

_________________
Hard a starboard.......Shoot!


Last edited by PaulC on Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 5:41 am
Posts: 199
Location: Laurieton , Australia
Paul, as sunk Dorsetshire had a completely different camo scheme applied.


Attachments:
Dorsetshire, Trincomalee, 04.42.jpg
Dorsetshire, Trincomalee, 04.42.jpg [ 84.18 KiB | Viewed 1059 times ]
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:44 pm
Posts: 452
Location: England
Paul,

I have two other broadside photos of Dorsetshire in the World Naval Ships.com version of her 1941 scheme and they show the forward two funnels as the same darker tone colour as that low on the hull and the aft funnel as the same light tone colour as the upper panel on the hull.

So I think just two tones.

Best wishes.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:27 am
Posts: 614
Location: Kingston, Jamaica
Wow - thanks Brett! :doh_1: (Why didn't that photo come up in my searches until now??)

I've edited the post to reflect that...so Aoshima's camo depiction is totally wrong. And it makes sense now. Last night I was thinking about the Mountbatten Pink possibility - wondering how the RN would send a ship to the Indian Ocean in that scheme.

And I just checked the upcoming releases thread P 104, and realized that, of course, Flyhawk will have it right (they use the picture you posted).

So thank you! :thumbs_up_1:


And thanks Dick! But what about the forward turrets? Light or dark?

_________________
Hard a starboard.......Shoot!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 5:41 am
Posts: 199
Location: Laurieton , Australia
There would no doubt be other shots in private collections of Dorsetshire in this short lived scheme, but I cannot find others within the P.D.
You can read an interesting thread about the incorrect box art, and new pattern on page 4 of the forum on SN.
The reference can be found here,
http://www.armouredcarriers.com/battle- ... ormidable/

Here are 2 images of interest, Cornwell can be identified by her hanger, Dorsetshire`s new scheme can just be discerned.
All the best


Attachments:
a+cornwall+left+dorsetshire+right.jpg
a+cornwall+left+dorsetshire+right.jpg [ 199.21 KiB | Viewed 1040 times ]
Dorsetshire.jpg
Dorsetshire.jpg [ 114.34 KiB | Viewed 1040 times ]
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:27 am
Posts: 614
Location: Kingston, Jamaica
Thanks again Brett - really great reference with great photos. Had never seen that before.

Couldn't locate the SN discussion though.

_________________
Hard a starboard.......Shoot!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:27 am
Posts: 614
Location: Kingston, Jamaica
Hi all,

Have another question - specifically regarding the Aoshima Dorsetshire kit.

For the fo'c'sle deck forward of the breakwater the kit gives the alternative of using a planked section (tan coloured plastic as the rest of the deck) or a steel section (molded in grey like the rest of the kit).

Does anyone know which is the correct choice?

Plan drawings I've found of Dorsetshire suggest wood planking was in place.

Thanks,

Paul

_________________
Hard a starboard.......Shoot!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 5:41 am
Posts: 199
Location: Laurieton , Australia
Paul, Dorsetshire was 1 of only 2 units of subclass Norfolk, clear shots of Dorsetshire`s forecastle cannot be found on the PD.
Here is the forecastle of Norfolk dated 1933, whether these areas were plated over by 1942, like some of the Kent subclass, I cannot tell you, but I suspect not.


Attachments:
NORFOLK, 03.33.jpg
NORFOLK, 03.33.jpg [ 187.97 KiB | Viewed 796 times ]
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:27 am
Posts: 614
Location: Kingston, Jamaica
Thanks Brett, much appreciated. :thumbs_up_1:

_________________
Hard a starboard.......Shoot!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:19 am
Posts: 197
Location: Washington, DC
All:

With the Trumpeter 1/350 kit of HMS Cornwall due to be released early next year, I would like to know if anyone knows where I can find any photographs of HMS Cornwall in her light gray/dark gray scheme as depicted in Alan Raven's RN Camouflage in WW2, Part 1, and in Eric Leon's artwork here:

https://www.world-war.co.uk/Kent/cornwall.php3

I am kicking myself, because I came across just such a picture online a few weeks ago, and though I thought I downloaded it, I can't seem to find it. Arghhh!!!!

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Mike E.

_________________
Mike E.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:27 am
Posts: 614
Location: Kingston, Jamaica
Hello all,

All the best for 2019!

I've just received my second Dorsetshire kit which I plan to convert to Norfolk, 1941.

(This time it's the"Bismarck" kit which, by the way, is chock full of extra goodies including 6 Swordfish, Flyhawk-quality Quad Vickers and Pom Pom replacements, 2 u-boats including PE for them, plus the Sunderland,Wellington and Walrus that are in the other kit.)

My query relates to Norfolk's deck colour.

I've seen a reference which states that her decks (wood and steel) and turret tops in 1941 were painted "dark blue".

I bought a bottle of True North's RN 1941 Dark Blue but was shocked when it arrived - it is a bright turquoise colour (this isn't represented on the True North website) which I subsequently saw to be reasonably in line with Snyder & Shorts RN paint chips which I saw on their ship camouflage website and here (bottom right):

Image
http://www.steelnavy.com/images/chips/RNchip02.jpg

But I cannot fathom how the RN could in its right mind have painted a warship's decks with that!

I know that there has been a lot of recent work done on RN colours with significant changes to what was previously represented. Anyone have any thoughts or ideas on what the story really is regarding the dark blue decks?? :scratch:

Thanks!

Paul

_________________
Hard a starboard.......Shoot!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 5:41 am
Posts: 199
Location: Laurieton , Australia
Paul, the presented colour does seem odd, but honestly, how would you know, personally I would not use it.
Deck colours are even more controversial and vague than other colours discussed.
There appears a wide variance not only to colours presented in different colour charts, but a variance to reported deck colours also.

The reference you mentioned was probably from `Warship perspectives Vol 1` which quotes Dark Blue for Norfolk`s decks, but dark blue could be one of several colours, not just the DB presented on the S & S chart, which to my eye does not look DB at all.

It is mentioned by Dakin (Australian camo directorate) that Sydney`s decks were blue in Med service, what blue?
I had seen a coloured crop of a deck (can`t find it again and don`t remember which ship) which was reported as B15 and looked pretty close.
B15 and B30 were widely used on decks, for the purposes of modelling, these 2 colours and even B20 could be applied.
Dependent on who`s chart and which manufacturer colour you use, they could all be acceptable colours, no one is in a position to challenge you.
The 3 colours mentioned are very close on the Sovereign chart, and accurate IMO, each chart varies.

How can you achieve accuracy when your references are ambiguous, vague and unknown for certain?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:27 am
Posts: 614
Location: Kingston, Jamaica
Hi Brett,

Thanks for your reply! Not to worry - there's no way my Norfolk will have turquoise decks! :big_grin:

Actually I was thinking along the lines that you suggested. I have a surviving tin of the old WEM B15 and it looks reasonable to me against a home fleet grey hull. I have B20 as well, so I'll look at that too.

As you rightly said, we can never be sure what the real deal was.

Thanks again!

Paul

_________________
Hard a starboard.......Shoot!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:44 pm
Posts: 452
Location: England
One imagines that any deck blue would be intended to tone with the sea and so be fairly dark.

A dark deck blue on Sydney can be seen here: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C177151


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Kent Class
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:59 am
Posts: 48
Does any one make a Kent class cruiser?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Kent Class
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:11 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:14 am
Posts: 156
Location: SE Michigan
Is this the pre WWI Kent class?

Or the County class from the 1920's?

_________________
Our CO prior to flying to the boomer: “Our goals on this patrol is to shoot missiles and torpedoes.”
Junior Nuke Officer (me) : “Captain, don’t we really want to be like Monty Python and ‘Not be seen’?”
CO “You seem to be missing the big picture”
“Oh”


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Kent Class
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:59 am
Posts: 48
I am thinking of making a 1/96 scale plug in order to make a fiberglass hull. I am confused about the armored belt. I am talking about the WWII version.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Kent Class
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:47 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:14 am
Posts: 156
Location: SE Michigan
The county class thread (which at this time is right below this thread) may give you more help. I'm not sure whats available in 1/96, but I know parts can be ordered from Shapeways in many scales. The known kits out there ate 1/700 waterline and I thought also 1/600. There may be 1/350 available but I don't build a lot in that scale.

_________________
Our CO prior to flying to the boomer: “Our goals on this patrol is to shoot missiles and torpedoes.”
Junior Nuke Officer (me) : “Captain, don’t we really want to be like Monty Python and ‘Not be seen’?”
CO “You seem to be missing the big picture”
“Oh”


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Kent Class
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:12 pm
Posts: 2086
Captain Morgan, it is the 1/600 scale HMS Suffolk made by Airfix. http://www.modelerjoe.net/shipmodellist ... ixCountyCA belongs to same sub-class as Kent.

Richard, is it the armored belt or the torpedo bulge you have a problem with?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 286 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group