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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:57 am 
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Understood, but maybe it's the eye of the beholder, or maybe expectation, but to me, you can detect a subtle difference in the shades, particularly where the light hits the aft edge of each funnel.

The lesser contrast could also be a result of the possible MBP repainting!

Anyway - I felt the same way as far as the historical significance of the earlier scheme! :big_grin:


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File comment: Norfolk & Dorsetshire May 1941
2 sisters May 1941 -resized.jpg
2 sisters May 1941 -resized.jpg [ 189.65 KiB | Viewed 831 times ]

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 3:51 pm 
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Hope I can get mine to look that nice! Are the top masts a lighter color?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:57 am 
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A new question:

Cumberland and Suffolk both had their quarterdeck cut down for weight reduction reasons, so far we all know. But when modelling these two ships from the Trumpeter kit, where exactly should the cut be made?
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Stern Soffolk - Cumberland cutdown resized.jpg
Stern Soffolk - Cumberland cutdown resized.jpg [ 240.58 KiB | Viewed 682 times ]

I made this drawing, in the process reconstructing the frame layout of these ships. I concluded the frames were spaced 4' between frame 27 and 141, and 3' in front of frame 27 and aft from 141 onwards. With these numbers LPP works out well, assumed that AP is one foot in front of the rudder axis.

In the little diagram to 1/350 scale I made this is all visible, and my question is: would this be a correct approach for making the cuts to the Trumpeter kit? And are the portholes or square shutters all in the correct locations?Maybe someone out there can point out the errors in my assumptions.

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Last edited by Maarten Schönfeld on Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 8:03 am 
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FRAMSailor wrote:
Hope I can get mine to look that nice! Are the top masts a lighter color?


Thanks, I'm sure you will and more! The topmasts are painted white - a common early WW2 RN practice, I believe.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:29 am 
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This is Cumberland, without making checks I am assuming the scuttles were equal port and strbd.
There are 6 scuttles forward of the shutters, with plates welded over them.
The qtrdeck rise begins just aft of the 6th scuttle.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:35 am 
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Brett Morrow wrote:
This is Cumberland, without making checks I am assuming the scuttles were equal port and strbd.
There are 6 scuttles forward of the shutters, with plates welded over them.
The quarterdeck rise begins just aft of the 6th scuttle.

Yes! That's correct. But the scuttles port and stbrd are not exactly the same, that part of your assumption is not correct. Also there are some differences between Suffolk and Cumberland.
As you can see I had drawn one extra scuttle in dashed line, that one is only on port, so your conclusion is right.
The welded plates are only added later on, I guess your image of Cumberland is from ca March 1943?

The extra scuttle AFT of the shutters seems to be unique to the portside of Cumberland, and is missing from the post-war pictures.

I revised the drawing slightly. About the shutters next to the Y turret I'm not quite certain, on many photos they seem to be missing.


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Stern Soffolk - Cumberland cutdown resized2.jpg
Stern Soffolk - Cumberland cutdown resized2.jpg [ 232.06 KiB | Viewed 561 times ]

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:01 am 
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Something completely different: isn't 'County class' a bit strange name?

- Berwick isn't a county, but a town (in county Northumberland)
- London is better known as a city, then as a county
- Dorsetshire and Devonshire are old historical names, the counties are called Dorset and Devon, also at the time these ships were named
- Australia never was nor will ever be a county
- Canberra is a city and to my knowledge not a county.

So why do we call it the County class, with all these exceptions? Or worse, some even called it the 'Country class'!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:57 am 
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Minor detail - Berwick(shire) was a county, when the class was built - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwickshire
"Devonshire" is/was often used colloquially, although "Devon" is/was usually used on official documentation.
"Dorsetshire" is a more archaic usage.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:50 am 
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tjstoneman wrote:
Minor detail - Berwick(shire) was a county, when the class was built - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwickshire
"Devonshire" is/was often used colloquially, although "Devon" is/was usually used on official documentation.
"Dorsetshire" is a more archaic usage.

Hi tjstoneman,
Thank you for these corrections and annotations!

Berwick (without -shire) seems to refer only to the town, not to the historical Scottish county. And while the name givers bent themselves for Dorsetshire and Devonshire, why not then on Berwickshire?

It seems only English county/shire names were used for these ships, Welsh or Scottish counties weren't considered apparently. Maybe an indication of the English dominance in the Royal Navy? Or the use of traditional ship names for commemorative reasons, not uncommon in naval ships? But on the other hand, with the Town class the names were taken more liberally, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Belfast all being named in that class.

Berwick(-upon-Tweed) was already a town in England since 1551 (although long disputed by Scotland after that date.) It remained a county in its own right until 1885, and was included in Northumberland then. So by 1926 when this cruiser was commisioned there wasn't a county Berwick(shire) anymore. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berwick-upon-Tweed

According to this page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Berwick all RN ships with the name Berwick refer to the town, not the county. But I know, Wikipedia is not always the right source!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:09 am 
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Interesting digression indeed.
I'll go with ... tradition. It is true the ships had counties as their namesakes, but also, the names were a continuation of the name in the Royal Navy.
As such, I found that there were quite a few with the same quirck, just looking at the previous County (or Monmouth) class: apart from Berwick, there were also Bedford, Lancaster, and Monmouth herself for that matter.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:18 am 
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Hi Gernot,

Yes, you are making certainly a good point. Thanks! These names would only make sense when -shire is added. And the Monmouth class was also dubbed the County class.

Maarten

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:34 pm 
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London was a county at that time; the LCC was the London County council.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_County_Council

According to this article the name Berwick comes from the WWI cruiser and is for the Scottish county (perhaps because the Monmouth Class ship was built in Scotland?):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Berwick_(1902)

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:46 am 
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Berwick was a county at the time of the WW2 era County Class cruiser HMS Berwick:

https://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/ ... shire.html

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov. ... /c/F269524


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:21 pm 
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Dick and Admiral John Byng,

Thanks for your further clarification!

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