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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:36 am 
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Rob wrote:
Not cheap - but you'd find a copy of Raven/Roberts very useful.

Cheers,

Rob

Hi Rob,

I have finally bought Raven/Roberts!

Cheers,

Hugh

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:31 am 
Phil R wrote:
Has anybody idea what were the deck colours for HMS Berwick in 1945? Would the main deck be natural wood and the rest dark grey?
TIA
Regards ,Phil



Please check http://www.world-war.co.uk/index.php3

According to this starting from end of 1941, beginning 1942 she had her decks painted dark grey.

Regards Miroslaw


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:29 am 
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Regia Marina
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Where can I find photo or drawing of cruiser HMS Norfolk

Thanks
Giampiero


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:34 am 
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http://www.world-war.co.uk/index.php3

or try Google (images)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:35 am 
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Thanks :smallsmile:


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:33 pm 
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Has anyone got a picture of the lower part (underwater part) of the bow for a county class? Down where the paravane lines attach. I have a picture of the Liverpool (Town class) in a US drydock after losing her bow in a storm. She has been all patched up. Do the County class bows look pretty similar in this area?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:58 pm 
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Not a very clear photo though:

http://www.hmsgangestoterror.org/Terror/SuKeCne8.jpg

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:59 pm 
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From Norman Ough's plans of Dorsetshire:

Attachment:
Dorsetshire Bow.JPG
Dorsetshire Bow.JPG [ 47.77 KiB | Viewed 2981 times ]

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 Post subject: RAN County in 1942
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:01 am 
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Hello,
I'd like to know the anti-aircraft weapons carried by Australian cruisers at the time of the battle of Coral sea in May 1942.

Lundstom's "Black shoe carrier Admiral" says on note page 551:
Chicago: 8 5"/25, 4x4 1.1", 8x 0.5" guns (while other US CAs had 12x20 instead of MGs).
Austalia: 4x2 4", 2x4 2pdr, 8x 0.5" guns (I guess 2x4)
Hobart: 4x2 4", 2x4 2pdr, 12x 0.5" guns (I guess 3x4)

Anyway I believe that Hobart received the quad 2pdr only later (refit at Sydney in october 1942), and Australia did not have the quads, but only singles and octuples.
Any photo of them during that timeframe?

Whitley in "Cruisers of WWII" says Australia had 4 twin 4" HA guns, and 4 single pom-pom.
When did she get the 2 octuple mounts?
I believe that she also had 2 quad 0.5" MG, but no 20mm Oerlikon.

"County class cruisers" by Raven and Roberts says:
AUSTRALIA
as of 1939 - 4x1 4 in, 2x8 2pdr, 2x4 0.5 inch
by late 1943 - 7x1 20mm fitted, 4x2 4 in. replaced 4x1 4 inch.
by early 1944 - single 20mm replaced by 7x2 20mm
by early 1945 - 8x1 40mm added
by late 1945 - 20mm removed

Canberra (not involved in battle) had 8 single 4" guns (instead of 4 twins), and she had 2 octuple pom-pom.
I believe that she also had 2 quad 0.5" MG, and possibly had 5 single 20mm Oerlikon.

"County class cruisers" by Raven and Roberts says:

CANBERRA
as of 1939 - 4x1 4 in., 4x1 2pdr, 2x4 0.5 in.
by early 1941 - 8x1 4 in. 2x8 2pdr, 2x4 0.5 in.

Some sources says that the 2 pdr. were fitted in early 1941 while others during the refit in Sydney in 1942.

Whitley in Cruisers of WW2 says 8 single 4".
It seems that other County class cruisers had 8 single 4" instead of 4 twins.
Anyway I'm not able to see if they were really there:
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/imag ... 13454a.jpg
and
https://kearns.fogbugz.com/default.asp?ahoy.2.1085.4
says that only 4 were fitted.

---------------------------------------------------

HMAS Australia seems to have an american Mk4 fire control radar, probably fitted in mid-late war.
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/imag ... 291383.jpg
I've never seen any reference of that.

----------------------------------------------------

There is much difference between different books for the 1942 timeframe weapons.
For example Australia has either 4 single 4" and 2 octuple 2 pdr OR 4 twin 4" and 4 singles 2 pdr OR 4x2 4" and 2x4 2pdr!!!

Thank you in advance for any answers.
Max


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:12 am 
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Location: alton hampshire uk
hi guys
i forgot about this thread anyway i have never seen this before and posted it last week but thought it should go here
cher
gary r


Attachments:
Australia_1.jpg
Australia_1.jpg [ 55.64 KiB | Viewed 2892 times ]

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:42 pm 
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baltimoreredskin wrote:
Has anyone got a picture of the lower part (underwater part) of the bow for a county class? Down where the paravane lines attach. I have a picture of the Liverpool (Town class) in a US drydock after losing her bow in a storm. She has been all patched up. Do the County class bows look pretty similar in this area?

Liverpool lost her bow due to enemy action:

Quote from http://www.naval history.net:

October

8th Deployed with HM Aircraft Carriers EAGLE and ILLUSTRIOUS, HM Battleships

MALAYA, RAMILLIES and WARSPITE, HM Cruisers AJAX, GLOUCESTER,

ORION, YORK and SYDNEY (RAN) to provide Distant Cover for passage of

Convoy MW2 to Malta and also return Convoy ME4 of empty ships to Egypt.

(Operations MF3 and MB6.

(Note: Screen included HM Destroyers DAINTY, DECOY, JANUS, JERVIS, JUNO,

STUART, VAMPIRE and Polish ORP GARLAND).

11th Covered air attacks by HMS ILLUSTRIOUS and HMS EAGLE on airfields at Leros.

12th Under attack by Italian torpedo boats one of which, ARTIGLIERE, was sunk by HMS

YORK.

14th Provided cover for further air attacks by carriers on Leros.

During air operations on Leros hit forward by aircraft torpedo which caused fire

in petrol stowage and damaged A turret.

Major damage sustained to bow structure.

Taken in tow by HMS ORION screened by HM Destroyers DAINTY, DECOY, DIAMOND

and VAMPIRE (RAN).

15th Bow structure broke away during stern tow.

16th Arrived at Alexandria and taken in hand for temporary repair.



November Under repair.

to

December

http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Chrono-06CL-Liverpool.htm

For your information.

Also consult Norman Friedmans British Cruisers, ISBN 978-1-848-320789, Seaforth Publishing (UK), which is an update on Raven and Roberts Cruisers of World War 2. I use the term update very loosely here, not wishing to draw any fire......(incoming, duck)

Regards,

Hugh Williams

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:51 am 
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If anyone is interested, the National Archives of Scotland have a bunch of really and truly amazing pictures of HMAS Australia during her construction and three of HMS Berwick. You can view them here, however DO NOT BUY THEM FROM THIS SITE! This site is a for profit partner of the archives. The cheapest scan you could purchase from there is £10. You want to get them from the archives themselves. You can send an inquiry to them at WSR at nas.gov.uk. From the archives themselves, the cheapest scans they have are 50p, but you need to make it clear you are a modeler and will not be using them for profit. You will be asked to make a £15 deposit towards the work involved and as soon as they have your materials gathered they will send an estimate of the total cost. The £15 deposit will be deducted from the estimate. The deposit is non refundable so if you order less than that they will charge you £15 and keep the balance.

There are 47 images of the Australia under construction, during fitting out, and underway and 3 of Beriwck underway. Altogether they would cost £36. They also have some fine images of the HMS Hood, HMS Repulse, HMS Barham, and HMS Tiger. There are even a few good ones of Ramilles, Jupiter, and Terrible to boot.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:25 pm 
Rob
Those are truly amazing!
I already know what my next 3D/card model subject will be.
In those pictures the ship is basically completed. Just as the new Friedman's book points out, the catapult was not installed at this stage. The question is - was all other equipment needed to operate a plane installed at the time those pictures were taken? I'm thinking about fuel tanks, booms etc. I'm just wandering how the appearance of the area changed once the catapult was installed.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:02 pm 
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I really don't know a lot about the class, but I would assume if she was designed with the cats already, then the appearance would not have changed other than the addition of the cat. Everything else would have been installed as it arrived/was scheduled for. There would not have been much need to modify anything other than minor fit and finish things just to wrap up construction.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:23 pm 
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AUSTRALIA before the catapult was fitted, but carrying a Supermarine Seagull aircraft: http://www.flickr.com/photos/41311545@N05/4550234247/
Tim


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:07 pm 
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Wow, Tim, Hugh was right about you, you really can find anything! :big_grin:


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:08 pm 
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Not clever, just lucky - and co-incidentally so - happened across that photo last night whilst surfing! :big_grin:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:02 am 
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Reference HMAS Australia (II) - The Seagull V was wrecked twice 1934 and 1935. The ship paid off 24/4/1937 to have the single 4" guns replaced by twin 4" mounts and side armour fitted. This was a modernization refit. She recommissioned 28/8/1939, but the refit didn't finish until 9/1939, when the range finder was fitted to the forward dct.

She had a further refit at Simonstown DY when a basic degausing cable was fitted. This was 21/6/1940.

On 4/8/1940, camouflage was applied.

Hope this is of use.

Hugh

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:03 am 
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Hugh,
did she have the 2 octuple 2pdr. pom-pom fitted during the 1937-1939 modernization?

Max


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:02 am 
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maxs75 wrote:
Hugh,
did she have the 2 octuple 2pdr. pom-pom fitted during the 1937-1939 modernization?

Max

Max,

According to the history of HMAS Australia, it looks like she maintained a pom-pom armament of 4 x 1 until a refit at Garden Island commencing 7/2/1944 found the ship surrendering 3 Oerlikon and fitting a further 2 2pdr singles, together with one Bofors. Note also this refit included changing the masts to tripods.

The modernisation narrative (on a first reading!) does not refer to the Pom-pom replacement. However, the new work by Norman Friedman has a photo on page 130 which shows the Octuple pom-poms abaft the catapult position, together with the information that this was carried out during the modernisation. There is also a photo in Raven's original work which clearly shows the weapons so fitted. This is found on page 18.

Note also that the twin 4" were mounted on the main deck, not the boat deck as per other County class ships. The same applies to the Canberra, but whilst this ship had positions for the Octuple guns, these guns were never fitted.

If I can find further information, I shall post it.

Hugh

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