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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:59 am 
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Hi Vlad,

I doubt that the support shrouds changed much, if any. When at sea as the ship rolls those pole masts have a real tendency to sway; removing the support shrouds would put undue stress on the mast structure and could result in the loss of a mast. In the second picture of the Quincy in the South Pacific if I zoom in I can just make out what could be the shroud still going down to the over hangar deck just in the shadow and thus hard to see. Just as a follow on, I checked the building plans I have of the New Orleans, they show that the over hangar anchor points where 23' back from the leading edge of that deck and 14' apart centered on the centerline of the ship.

For the between mast lines and the associated radio leads that's a more pragmatic problem. May have to resort to a small amount of artistic license for those.

best,
Bruce

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:04 am 
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Hi Bruce,
thanks for your comments. I was also surprised I could not see the fwd shrouds on the second photo (and I still cannot see them however closely I zoom in, although I agree they should be there), but the position where they should attach is a great help, thanks! And of course we will need to use some artistic license for some of the details.
Vladi

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:05 pm 
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My question is just a general.
Is not about conversion or modification scale modeling.

Will anyone please provide me information regarding
the overall length of
CA-34 USS ASTORIA, CA-38 USS SAN FRANCISCO,
CA-39 USS QUINCY, and CA-44 USS VINCENNES.

According to these reports:
https://www.history.navy.mil/research/l ... -no29.html
https://www.history.navy.mil/research/l ... -no26.html

USS ASTORIA waterline length was 574'
USS SAN FRANCISCO waterline length was 578'
USS QUINCY and USS VINCENNES waterline length were 569'

Is interesting to see that these ships hand different hull lengths.

I would like to know if all these ships were 588' overall length?
If that is the case, perhaps the bow or stern could have different curvatures.

If anyone could please share information or explain the lengths of these ships.
I appreciated.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:13 am 
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All should have been roughly the same. The differences would most likely be related to how the waterline was defined. With the rake of the bow (and a bit at the stern), changes in draft would effect the length of the apparent waterline. The earlier sisters were very close to the 10,000 ton treaty limit. Quincy and Vincennes were redesigned prior to construction to create a margin to add more light/medium AA. They were 550-600 tons lighter than their earlier sisters. So with the waterline further down the hull, the length at that waterline would have been less than on sisters with a deeper draft.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:55 pm 
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Thank you for the input from previous message.

I have another question.

Can anyone please confirm if the two tubs at USS QUINCY's top platform are for the lookout chairs
or something else?
How about the round figure behind the pilot house in the navigating bridge?
Is that a signal light?

Image

I appreciate for the help.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:47 am 
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Hi guys,
after perhaps annoying some of you in this thread with my USS Quincy-related questions for a while :smallsmile: I finally called my build done today. For those interested in Quincy in her as-sunk fit I just posted some photos and a write-up here in the Completed builds section. Hope it may serve as an inspiration to someone just like builds of other modelers inspired me. Thanks!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:50 am 
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Okay brain trust I have a challenge for everyone. I have gone through DANFS and the meager resources I have in an attempt to create a list of the visibly different configurations all seven ships would have been in throughout their careers. Largely based off the "as built" and various "refit/overhauls" that I could find. The information is really sparse and I know more occured. Can you help me fill in the blanks? I only need dates, not what was done. I will be heading to NARA to get plans for selected date ranges, hence not needed to know what was actually done.

New Orleans CA-32
Launched 4/12/33
Commissioned 2/15/34
refit (new radar and 20mms) 2/12/42
refit previous to 12/44

Astoria CA-34
Launched 12/16/33
Commissioned 4/28/34
refit 4/8/41
refit 6/13/42

Minneapolis CA-36
launched 9/6/33
commissioned 5/19/34
refit 9/34

Tuscaloosa CA-37
Launched 11/15/33
Commissioned 8/17/34
refit sometime after 1/3/39
refit 1/29/40
refit sometime after 11/8/42
refit 9/44

San Francisco CA-38
Launched 3/9/33
commissioned 2/10/34
refit 2/35
refit 5/40
refit 10/41? most of the work cancelled
Refit 10/44

Quincy CA-39
launched 6/19/35
commissioned 6/9/36
refit 10/5/36 or 3/15/36 (DANFS not clear)
refit 5/4/40
refit 3/42

Vincennes CA-44
Launched 5/21/36
commissioned 2/24/37
refit 4/39
refit 1/41
refit 7/14/42

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:19 am 
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Just off the top of my head, add the following:
New Orleans: Pearl 40MM added to fantail Sep-Oct '42, Puget Sound repair/modernization Apr-Jul '43.
Minneapolis: Mare Island June '41, Pearl 40MM added to fantail Sep-Oct '42, Mare Island repair/modernization May-Aug '43.
San Francisco: Mare Island repair/modernization Dec '42-Feb '43.
Vincennes: NYNY Jan-Feb '42 prior to transit to Pacific.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Gabriel.

You could also go through Navsource and look for Yard Photos (dated hopefully) for the units in the class. Those point to yard periods at least in late 1941 and beyond. MINY overhauls and refits generally have quite a few photos. Other yards are more iffy.

In early 1942, many ships underwent short yard periods when they added 20-mm guns and radars as time allowed. Such yard visits, particularly at PHNY, are difficult to nail down specific dates without going through Weekly Overhaul Reports or (maybe) individual ship records in Textual. Then when the 40-mm guns and Mk 51 directors became available in late summer 1942, another period of swap out of 40-mm for 1.1-in mounts and refits occurred (if the ship wasn't lost first).

Something to realize. It was common practice for USN ships to go through a shakedown period after commissioning and completion (sometimes completion actually lagged commissioning). Then a "Post-Shakedown Availability" was done after shakedown (pre-WWII shakedown could last a year). The King Board Mods were started in 1940 on the "Heavy Units" (BB, CV, CA, and CL) with several interim configurations due to a lack of 1.1-in mounts and lagged on the destroyers into mid-1941.

I don't know which ship plans you are planning to look for at NARA. The pre-WWII units generally have "as completed" drawings available (if any) and if any drawings are available during WWII, the "last configuration" could be available ... in paper/mylar. Microfilm offers the best option for maybe finding other configurations, but are time consuming to go through. Check with Sean and Tracy about microfilm searches.

Sean located in Textual Records (they are listed in the NARA Ship Plans index books) BGP's for CA-31 (not on your list) and CA-37 in 1944. I had select views of those two ships scanned at NARA for Sean. Contact me off-board if you want a copy of those plans ... way too big to E-Mail.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:20 pm 
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Thanks guys. I have updated my existing list. If you guys come across any other feel free to let me know.

Thanks for that info Rick. I will go through Navsource and see what that tells me in addition to this before my next NARA stomp.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:54 pm 
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Gabriel,

Something is wrong here;

Quincy CA-39
launched 6/19/35
commissioned 6/9/36
refit 10/5/36 or 3/15/36 (DANFS not clear) ... The March 1936 date would be before she was commissioned. A typo for 1937 or even 1938?? DANFS has typos that can drive you nuts. The October 1936 refit would be about right for a Post-Shakedown Availability.
refit 5/4/40
refit 3/42


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:16 pm 
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Quick question. I've stripped the paint off an old 1/700 Trumpeter San Francisco 1942 kit pending a bit of a refurbishment, but I also want to build San Francisco 1944 version in camouflage. To avoid doubling up on a single ship when the class has plenty of interesting members, I'm looking at converting my kit to Astoria as part of the repaint. I've used the reviews on this site to compare the instructions side by side and it seems the kits are basically identical and build the same except:

- turrets (obviously); I actually have a spare set of round faced turrets so this isn't an issue
- shape of the 20mm gallery on the aft control position; even on a built kit it shouldn't be too hard to cut this off and rebuild to the right shape

Anything else major I've missed?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:27 pm 
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Depends on how picky you want to be. There are several other changes that should be made. Astoria only received the 20MM on either side of the bridge-top rangefinder after Midway. So with that feature, she needs MK-3 radar on the MK-31 directors. On San Francisco, the 20MM forward of the raised 5" mounts by the bridge were further inboard, with the outboard bulwark even with the bulkhead below it. On Astoria, the tubs were outboard, more directly in front of the 5" mounts. On San Francisco, a bulwark extended along the back of the bridge, connecting the two 1.1" tubs (except for a short break for a ladder). On Astoria, the bulwark between tubs was almost non-existent. On San Francisco, the deck at the level of the hangar roof overhung the back of the hangar structure. On Astoria, only the two 20MM tubs extended beyond the bulkhead. On San Francisco, the small rangefinder tub on the back of the after superstructure (above turret 3) was at hangar roof level. On Astoria, it was a bit higher. In that last refit, Astoria received directors for the forward 1.1's but not for the ones on the fantail. The tubs for all 4 directors had been in place since June of '41, so when lost, her fantail director tubs were empty.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:52 am 
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Thanks Dick! Most of those seem like simple modifications, how picky I can be is limited by what I can modify on a built kit. Although now I have an annoying case of "wish I didn't ask". If I just bought Trumpeter's Astoria I would have built her OOB and not known these things, but now knowing and not changing will bother me. :heh:

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:04 am 
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Hi Vlad,
there is one more detail I am aware of that was not mentioned yet - the main 8"/55 guns were Mark 9 on Astoria while San Francisco had the later Mark 12. The difference is that Mark 9 had a "step" while Mark 12 were "plain" (sorry if my terminology is not really correct). But this is really rivet counting ;)
HTH

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:19 pm 
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Greetings all,

Finally finished up the Mk28 Directors for my 1/144 San Francisco; I think that I can live with these.

Image

Granted there's a lot of "artistic license" involved as I couldn't find any specific dimensional information, or even descent pictures. Main cupola was scratchbuilt, the range finder out front and the computer inside are both 3d printed (my first effort to involve new technology).

Your thoughts?

Bruce

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Currently on the building ways:
1/144 USS San Francisco CA-38
1/144 USS Stevens DD-479
1/144 USS Cook Inlet AVP-36
1/350 USS Hughes DD-410


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:03 pm 
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Love it, Bruce! :big_grin:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:56 am 
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Excellent! I stared at photos of Mk28 for some hours when I was trying to make them right for my 1/700 Quincy and I really love yours.
Where can we see more photos of your SF?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:23 pm 
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Thanks Steve and Vlad, glad you think it looks good.

Vlad, I haven't taken any up to date pictures of the project in some time; probably should. I've been so consumed with getting it finished that, with the exception of a spot picture here and there, I haven't taken any. I'm working on repainting an area I've been working on, I'll see if I can take some and post a set of pictures when that's done.

Bruce

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Currently on the building ways:
1/144 USS San Francisco CA-38
1/144 USS Stevens DD-479
1/144 USS Cook Inlet AVP-36
1/350 USS Hughes DD-410


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:36 am 
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So I'm putting on the PE lettering (upper left), looking closely at my reference photos and noticed an important historical event seemingly lost to history...

I guess sailors hiding and taking naps is a time honored tradition! At least it was during my time in the Army. ;)


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